Steve Greenblatt is probably least known for being one of my former employers. His AV career began by spending a few years working as a Systems Engineer for Crestron, then he went on to found what was probably one of the first Independent AV Programming companies, Control Concepts. With over 21 years in business, Control Concepts is one of the longest running AV programming business out there. He is also host of AVNation’s A State Of Control.
Transcript...
this is a software defined survival where we talk to AV IT professionals and software developers to find out how to leverage software to reinvent ourselves and we do business we listen to their stories and ask for advice and tactics on how to survive and thrive in a software defined what today software defined survive what we used to do you use to be magic right we nobody touch screen twenty five years ago it was scary we’re living in this this really boxed in world of hi Terry software say what I was looking at a seeing what can we do to augment that how could we stand apart from others how could we use other programming languages to be able to make systems more powerful I think that there needs to be more awareness for it from the every day eighty programmer as to being able to story offering and look beyond what got to the point that they currently are at %HESITATION today’s guest is probably least known for being one of my former employers his ABC career began by spending a few years working as a systems engineer for Crestron then he went on to found what was probably one of the first independent TV programming companies control concepts with over twenty one years in business control concepts is one of the longest running TV programming businesses out there he’s also host of eighty nations state of control and his name is Steven Greenblatt Steve welcome to the show thank you Patrick you glad to be here is there anything about that introduction that %HESITATION you’d like to correct or expand upon that sounded great and I appreciate all the acknowledgement and die I feel like I’m just a guy that said I try to help the industry get better and I look saw an opportunity to take what was done ad for manufacturer as it internal person and and dad with a little bit of confidence from my dad and from others say I hate I went and dad took the lead but it’s been a great adventure and dives back then to aid the flexibility of being able to explore what the future looks like from the control system programming and and other software development perspective yeah you’ve probably seen a lot over the past few decades on your own but %HESITATION you mention that jump from working for Crestron and deciding to go off on your own could you %HESITATION what was it that really motivated to you to do that what were you seeing in the industry what kind of opportunities did you think were available what was kind of going on in your mind at that time the industry was a lot different than now say and and I I know that that that’s probably look dad is set as an obvious statement but the question was a much smaller company and %HESITATION and it was the right time in the right place I was young enough and there seems to be a big needed a big demand for programming what I really did what I went off a bio days I wanted to be more relationship based rather than just looking at trying to get projects done and tried to satisfy deadlines in trying to make sure that sales were happening I I looked at it is or for personal level and and thought they do what we’re doing can be done a little bit more individual where where we can really get to know a client we can develop solutions that are really geared toward their needs I we could really focus on what it is that a wide and do what we’re doing at at a higher level it I kind of looked at it prior to almost look like an assembly line had to get a lot of projects out to do word order to keep up with the demand that I had not that we don’t have to work at a fast pace world now but what we can do now I think is really invest a lot more and be able to get more satisfaction to out of the work that we do a very very interesting so it sounds like you were way ahead of your time %HESITATION in in terms of user experience right that’s all the buzz word lately especially with Infocom changing its name and I think that’s really what you’re talking about is instead of just turning a projector on and off really focusing on what the users need absolutely %HESITATION aid user experience and and it’s funny because things like this a lot of times come up and you don’t really realize that at the time and then you look back and you say you know what we’ve been doing this for a long time but but it was also the relationships with all the players involved so only until recently and and this is kind of a shame but only it over the last baby I don’t know ten years we’ve really engaged a lot more with with the clients in the clients didn’t really understand door or get to be able to have that direct relationship with with with a programmer who we were always kind of behind the scenes and so is the relationships that we were developing back dead were more with the integrators and then maybe with consultants and and now with bad your factors but the integrators we were braced us because we help to fill the void that they needed in order to be able to complete their deep the puzzle indoor and and provide that solution so we were helping them strength in their resources and their offerings and then it took awhile honestly for the clients the end users to be able to identify with us and to know that the work the end product that they were seeing part of that contribution came from a programmer and somebody who daisy at they have been engaging with directly and it it’s sad it’s kind of interesting absolutely you touched on a few things there that I want to circle back to sometimes I wonder it’s it’s sometimes it’s obvious how AV projects how they flow how they actually happened like where do projects come from there’s a customer there’s a bid spec it goes out to bid an integrator gets it and then maybe a a programmer gets involved at some point along the way but there are also other times where integrators have a direct relationship with end users and that’s like you were kind of saying that’s not really common that up a software developer or programmer would have that kind of relationship when did you start to kind of see that change is there any kind of catalyst that happens that kind of made end users more aware or maybe a particular vertical where that awareness happens as opposed to another one you just talk a little bit about that you know direct contacts with end users and and anything you see about like what made that happen well it started way to weigh it with having some advocates and and having whether they were a somebody who is a two way streets to fan at work or so or or who is a partner or weighs eighty at an integrator hired us or consultants who who saw the type of work that we did they they needed to elevate our role within the project the needed they do we we have to give some of the credit to them for being able to identify the importance that we could play for the client and and bringing us to the table and and getting the clients to understand who we were that that was the starting point of it I think the other shift was a as were more systems he came mainstream and became part of the the landscape of of the clients organization and and and they care importance was elevated and and they they reliance upon that was so important they realized that they needed to have consistency and consistency from room to room and and a lot of that comes with being able to rely on a programmer or software developer to you to provide that solution and and be it be that clue that takes you from project to project and helps to maintain your standards and helps to be able to be the one that they guides them to maintaining the consistency it’s very easy to say you want to be state have standardization but it takes a lot of discipline to to really actually do it and I think that what once the systems grew in such a large number it was critical that that standardization was there and and clients also the end users clients I know of it you’re changing words but they they have to work with different parties state you know whether it’s based on location are based on costs are just based on bad where they have to work with different integrators and having a programmer to cut it to to be the bridge from from integrated into greater project to project was very helpful for them to maintain that standard so I think that that’s really where the turning point was that’s the that’s pretty interesting so advocates the people who were planning the projects %HESITATION realizing the importance of the software and also how the %HESITATION the end users started to realize that they needed these standards there’s there’s kind of a synergy there of of the consultants really %HESITATION seeing your value and the end users as the systems grew larger did that have anything to do with %HESITATION I guess it’s kind of how once the iPhone came out right then everybody kind of knew what we did we no longer just fix TV’s it was like people understood that we rooted AV signals from here to there was there anything else you saw in that kind of collaboration space that that made it happen like hotel rooms or an advanced video conferencing or anything like that Hey I think of the easy one to point to and say putting the systems on the network and okay you know being able to say that you had all these systems at your finger tips and they were now kind of inter connected and rather than having a lot of one offs that that may have also been in another part where we really though I thought started to go off to say that we’re we’re now looking at day says it from a holistic standpoint rather than this unique high end boardroom we have we have a a lot of systems that have different I levels of complexity different levels of capability but the experience needs to be very similar and the user shouldn’t have to go and learn how the system works for when they’re going from room to room they should be able to feel comfortable and in education I think was where that was first adopted because professors need to walk into a room to be comfortable and they’re not going to necessarily teach in the same lecture holler classroom I either daily basis or even I know from semester to semester so they shouldn’t have to go re learn this they they should be able to say where we’ve we’ve we’ve back to walk into a room and show comfortable teaching are presenting their yeah via the university space really seems to be one of the more educated verticals in AV they they they kind of understand the most about what we do I’d like to shift gears for a minute here and and talk a little more about the business about independent programming as a business you’ve been doing it for a really long time if you had to pick just a few things that you would attribute to your your ex success and longevity to what what would they be customer service is very important obviously and and I think that that holds true in every business we’re we’re also very protective of making sure that we maintain a a solid reputation and we me and we do right by people and and die and sometimes that means that we have to sacrifice things and sometimes we have to go above and beyond Darryl costs to make that happen and and that that’s something that I’ve always kept in mind I I think another one that has bubbled up for me and it took me awhile to realize this route which transparency you have to be honest with people you have to be able to tell them the good news and bad news you have to be able to tell them when something is going to work and when something’s not going to work you have to tell tell them when you’re not ready and you need more time to get something done even if they don’t want to hear that I think all those sure are are very critical and being able to to be ten success in and build trust because really what it’s about and and I am sure that I’m repeating some of the obvious but people do business with people and and what we do is provide technology and what we do yet as a by product of that relationship is is develop software and and do easiest implementation but it’s the relationship and and knowing that we have each other’s back and knowing that that we can be there to stand behind our work and and be behind what we say we’re going to do is is really what’s critical yeah yeah you do need to be reliable so %HESITATION you mentions that transparency part which I get completely but up personally I I find it hard sometimes to get people to understand like when we say we need these for things to do our job war this time frame is ridiculous we are going to be late if we try to stick to this I have a really hard time having those conversations do you do you have any tips for me how to communicate these things better it is tough it is tough because nobody wants to hear bad news I think that being able to well well what is it depends if it’s a new relationship or an old relationship because if it’s an old relationship I think that there will be some give and take in and there will be some some trusted knowing that when you really say that it’s the truth rather than having the buffer and the padding and add because a lot of times what I found a new relationships do you start off based on what you know and what you’ve experienced in the past and many times as unfortunate by clients have bad experiences in that may be why they’re making a change so they have to protect themselves today go that extra time they’d go the extra contingency is and and they want to make sure that this goes well and and they they don’t necessarily trust you when you tell them they did it the information that you’re you’re sharing because they’re skeptical know when it’s when it’s eighty existing relationship I think that there needs to be you if you point back to may be a past experience where you’ve worked with somebody or were you really map it out with the what are the things that I tell people is that you I know that we want to make this deadline for a quiet and today we know we we have this project now okay do that let’s talk about what it’s gonna take to get there because it’s not totally in my control and I can commit to doing this for you but I can’t control the information that I need or the responses Aidid or the approvals that Aidid at the time that it takes to get them so yes we we want to commit to this time frame for you but we have to understand that it everybody has to take part in making that happen and dad I know I don’t know if that’s really answering the providing it it did there would be a true answer that’s going to to be able to resolve these types of conversations but at least it’s helping to I think ease the situation and make people realize that ADD can’t just put all the oldest son somebody else to to make a deadline it’s the programmers faults that never happens so I’m maybe could you describe your ideal customer or the projects flown that that best works as a programmer the the way to to really approach a project I think most successfully is is to take the time up front to to really out wide what a what those expectations are to take to get the information to be able to almost come up I I think one of the things that a via and fortunately lose is that it is a lot more promenade is just traditional software development is the time it takes to really define a goods back in a good scope and and here the research injured as to what it is that we’re going to develop and and all the use cases and all of the personas and and that those are all things that go into software development and a lot of times that it’s totally glossed over in it AG so if we were to be able to take time to really sit down and and define what the client needs and who’s going to use the system and how they’re going to use the system have that documented side often approved grabbing see easy part after that yeah as and that and and a lot of times we we compromise all of the hard work that goes it up Friday and there we were wondering why the project did go well so it may I think proper planning and documentation and being able to to really explore all of those the what ifs and and make sure that everybody is in agreement as to what we’re planning to do usually results in a much better outcome yeah I see this more more the deeper I get into real programming how much how important it is to really document everything of course you have to do it anyway but and and having that conversation of course is a is the great first step but I’m what do you do when you meet some resistance on that day there are of course great integrators out there everybody has great intentions but time is always precious right there’s never enough of it and it’s really easy just to skip that step because you’re a smart guy you could figure it out so I will never skip this step of coming up with what we call a control specification which is some type of a document that says this is what we planned to do anytime there we’ve had to sacrifice that it’s been really only a handful those projects never go well and that step in our process is so critical because it forces us to think through all the details of the project it forces us to be able to explain and present what we planned to do and then it forces all the parties involved to be able to take the time to read review it and and be a good and have the opportunity to provide feedback hopefully they provided approval and sometimes it opens its doors to a lot of conversation by chance your question a little bit more about when you when you add are met with resistance I think that what we need to fall back to that is to be able to make some assumptions say he is based on my experience this is what I’ve done in the past and ended start going down that road will we start with a blank slate that usually makes it a lot more difficult to really get to the outcome that we’re going to you kind of have to steer the quiet you have to have to try to show the get give them options at that all the options that you are okay are comfortable with and packing rather than give them options that could lead to additional time or effort or complexity and that’s unfortunate it out because it you but that that’s that’s one way of being able to to handle the situations where you’re met with resistance I like that limit the options or you know at least suggests the options that that you know will lead to a good outcome did the control spec you were talking about what when does that happen typically in the project flow before after a contract is rewarded just yeah city we love to say before but it’s right at its afterward our process and and that that’s where the what what what is the shortcomings or one of the the %HESITATION I is that the sad parts about what we DO it out a lot of times what we would love to do is be able to get paid to develop that and and then say were any give our price based on that but many times what we have to do is we have to do to put out a proposal that we use our best assessment of four weeks think the clients looking for is you based on the questions we can ask in a pre into cells phase and then what we do is put together that specification at once were awarded the project and and we’re actually getting into it and eight it’s a tool for both parties so it is so it does have some value even for programmers to be able to ensure that when they actually sit down to do something that that they can do it once they can do it accurately and also there are are no obstacles hopefully preventing them from being successful yeah you’re almost guaranteeing your own success by taking that step and I’m going back again soft it’s a normal process in software development it’s it’s consulting comes first right to figure out what is it that we need to do unfortunately here in Germany you see you see specifications or or a I’ll try one it’s called it’s a bid spec and it’ll say programming as the customer wishes right and so basically what what do you do all you can do is make a quote based on a list of black boxes it’s it’s a it’s a real challenge and I think it’s one of the places where AV can do a lot better in an adopts more software standards it’s the only thing I’ll add to that dad I wouldn’t that that may be helpful for a client is to look at extending that relationship with with the programmer after the project’s died so that they can get that personalization and what we call user preference changes I think that that’s the interesting part of being able to have a relationship with a programmer to be able to continue to grow with them beyond the completion of the initial project and did this way they they don’t feel stock when they have this and say I really wish that it worked a little bit differently or I I it would be so much better if I had destruction or these buttons were placed differently and and day it could all be done is just a matter of having that relationship with the programmer writes it so how do you go about navigating that transition from maybe the integrator being your customer to their end user becoming your customer I would first start by offering that follow up with a user preference follow up and and put that day as it either an option or or as a base price and say the fact that we all know that when systems get in did they require some break in time so wouldn’t it be helpful to be able to have this catch so that the client can feel more comfortable knowing that we’re going to be able to they’re gonna come up with a list of five modifications and and they just men said we’re we’re going to address that list for them within reason and say thirty forty five sixty days whatever that might be whatever it it works fast and and I think it is a great way to of making the client feel more comfortable to that they don’t have to think of everything up front so it might be a great selling option two for the integrator and then discuss at that point there’s no more installation typically involve to it if it really may just be a matter of the project manager the program or the client get together to figure out what that is adjustments are are and there may be an option after that to be able to have maybe a meat it’s a great band or some type of a support structure to be able to continue to do those changes as they come up excellent so I’m starting to see a little bit of a theme in in the advice you’re giving me and it’s a I’m gonna boil it down to playing the long game I I I yes that’s true it it’s not about it not not about getting quick wins it what we do it’s it’s more about really building trust and add relationships and really getting a client word with you add knowing that there you’re gonna they’re gonna grow by having you on their team great stuff so well what changes are you seeing in the industry what what is a what’s on your radar I think they were all seeing a shift in moving away from is much hardware and I think that that that should be fairly evident there there is that also a big impact as consumerization as I call it in the industry where expectations are now being sat for our people using technology in their daily life and being able to go to El electronics store online and you do it having all those DIY solutions tinkering and what we used to do you used to be magic right we you know we touched a screen twenty five years ago it was scary now everybody’s dead that’s that’s all they know how to do in fact I think here you talk about little kids walking up to a TV and tried to swipe it out so it’s you know who what the expectations are being set now well before they are seeing what is being provided on a professional level and at what is being these communication systems that are that are mature enterprise grade but that’s not to say that the expectations are are influencing what we’re doing because they are a day you know eight eight eighty here all the time it just works and you and why is this so complicated and why it what Weiss’s cost so much and and it’s it’s really playing a big part of what we’re doing it in fact and this is the part that a I don’t quite understand but I needed seeing systems that are there years ago we we went from having rowboats to have a control system and now we’re almost go back the opposite where you see systems in a project where they say I we did need to control with this we just use their about are we going to get out and we’re going backwards now how is that any easier yeah I wonder about those systems excuse me if it’s just to save money I think that it it it’s the wrong solution because you can provide very cheap control now a days but a if they’re looking for simplicity even that I mean that too remotes that are delivered with a video projector for example you you need one or two of those buttons and guide their nightmare exactly so I I had and I would I wouldn’t I would argue that it is that it isn’t cost it’s just that they’re not getting the right solution sounds like some opportunity there I would say yeah so what kind of steps are you or your company taking to kind of prepare for this change I mean it’s already happening maybe you’ve taken some steps already to %HESITATION to be able to provide solutions that are more familiar to %HESITATION to consumer solutions so so about seven years ago we had a key higher they came on board and and at the time it was a little bit of a rescue is a little bit of future thinking and and visionary thinking by the thought was at the time and and and he sat as a software development background in the thought at the time voice work we’re living in this this really boxed in world of of proprietary software let’s say and and it it hate does the job and it’s working and and I wasn’t going to complain it was what we do but what I was looking at is is seeing what could we do talk about that how could we stand apart from others how could we use other programming languages in the power of I tea which was a you know probably not as mature early AB converged as it is now to be able to make systems more powerful and and be able to to maybe address these needs that clients have that they don’t even know that nobody even knows how to stop so that’s what are the steps that we took an ad we’ve we’ve really gone down that path there for a number of years in in the first couple years you know we’re just getting our feet wet but but now we’ve started to get known for doing more software development in war that less reliant on projects and and more OJ she adds event dinner theater in terms of being able to provide unique solutions so for examining sample yeah what what we talk about a lot is made aware of that and middleware has a lot of different herbs but but you know a good example of middleware is being able to take it a navy system and take some software or system that’s external and rate get a translator let’s call it that makes the to talk together so it may be exchanging authentication information it may be exchanging scheduling detail it may be for connecting with building controls there’s so many different ways of being able to provide that solution it and now what we do what we do there can be sold either as a product to be you to to to solve that particular need or can be used to prevent a bigger solution ad we could be involved in that solution or we could just be providing that one piece so that others can then construct a solution very interesting %HESITATION you mentioned a bunch of things that really aren’t AV but we deal with all the time like integrating with calendars maybe a directory and and dealing with that kind of authentication is is that should we be doing everything do we need to choose do you do you see a space to do you know normal AV routing and user interfaces and also provide these kinds of integration is or is it really necessary like you did is that to hire somebody who who really does specialized that sort of thing I think that there needs to be more awareness for you from the every day AV programmer as to being able to explore these offerings in the end at look beyond is white gotten to the point that they currently Iraq at you know and and I’m not saying it’s for everybody because it’s not it’s not the easiest thing in the world and quite honestly I started off being a programmer and have moved on to doing more business related roles but I don’t know if I would be able to make that job very easily without really investing in myself and taking the time to go there but but I think that the future easy programming needs to consider the fact that we have these these other powerful languages and tools at our disposal and in order for us to overcome the idea that we’re gonna go back to just using their about what we have to be able to be for fighting more solutions that clients will value and I think that they’re very willing to pay for them but they have to have a they have to solve it a need and they have to address white or they have to see if a client money or that you know there it went once you can demonstrate those things I don’t think that we’re going to be limited by cost fascinating I love the sentiment where I have a lot of trouble is %HESITATION is getting the real feedback right because there are plenty of ideas and software opens up so many doors and anything really is possible but but really figuring out what is useful to a particular market I find that to be really challenging I I don’t disagree and I think that this is why we do podcasts and this is why we do you develop content and and you’re with the D. yeah I give you a ton of credit for with the things that you’re doing and and I think that you are very much in the minority unfortunately but we have to market ourselves we have we have to put ourselves out there we we can’t be insulated anymore are we and and it’s challenging and I I’ve I wish that I could do more marketing that I’ve been doing it and maybe that’s not the right term but right do you have you have to be go eight going out and getting face time with people you have to be going out and letting people know white is capable what what what you could provide it and also listening I think it that’s key to not enough people listen to truly what the clients asking for instead they just try to hit them with the solution that they know that they’ve done in the past and they they try to he said it would it with this client now and and dad and and that’s what are the other changes that that’s certainly been happening in the industry but but is far as getting feedback I think there will we have to put ourselves out there and we have to be able to find where the audience is clients are becoming a lot more involved and invested in this industry and a quite honestly they they have a lot of strength right now they they’ve hired a lot of people from the industry internally they why do you types of systems that provide their own services have the road up keep and they do you need to really show them that way your brain to the table is something that neither don’t have or they can’t do themselves to do they speak the same language like do they even call AV well it depends on who you’re talking with and and where they’re coming from if it’s if they’ve developed this by hiring people from within the industry that they still probably colony the but if they’ve built it organically then it’s probably stems from my tea and we have to adjust to what that I. T. mindset is to and and and that’s driving some things as well and and and I think there’s just there’s been more talk about software as a service and coming up with a with more I. T. said check solutions and and that I I need to also get more educated on how we find our place with within the I. T. world that and understand the language they speak and I try to learn it more and more every day yeah that’s that’s kind of what this podcast is all about in a thank you for the compliment earlier by the way the reason I started it it’s it’s yeah I guess you could call it marketing but really it’s it’s just trying to get the conversation started and %HESITATION talk to people who are smarter than me that have some thoughts on this just to kind of I don’t know what should the light on on the many many possible directions this this whole thing could play out here where we’re building community and and tried to engage with people and at that’s where things that I’ve learned to you is that you have to put yourself out there but you also have to give away free knowledge in order to draw people into you absolutely Steve thank you so much for being on the show if anybody would like to get in touch with you how how they go about doing that I you can visit our website control concepts that control concepts dot net about a bunch of social media platforms at Steve Greenblatt and as you mentioned at the top I proud to be the host of the state of control which is not easy nation and dad love to be able to share some more of these types of conversations with the audience and you’ve been on multiple times to bed that very valued yes with that very important perspective on things in data that that’s just a a fine and dad were engaging part of what I do and I feel like it’s just one way of contributing to the industry and and also growing as a professional absolutely it’s always fun to be on a state of control but I have to admit it’s a lot more stress free being on this side of the microphone that’s funny asking the questions all right Steve take care good talking to you thanks thanks for having me Patrick thanks for listening to the show if you enjoyed this discussion if you liked what you’ve heard if you want to hear more discussions like this please go to I tunes legal review to the show get in touch with me somehow and let me know that you’re out there listening and that’ll motivate me to keep doing these shows get mad so if you’re driving whatever said something in your calendar to give you a reminder to go to I tunes thanks for listening to software defined survival for transcripts and show notes go to software defined survival