Micha Van Der Stoop started his career at Cisco where he was involved with everything from designing and implementing their internal office networks to business development for Cisco’s Proof Of Concept Lab.
He also he worked at Shell Global Solutions where he was responsible for the global Reference Architecture and Solutions designs for AV, collaboration and CCTV.
He is currently Managing director at IDM Solutions, a Consulting & Design firm in the Netherlands.
Transcript...
this is a software defined survival where we talk to AV IT professionals and software developers to find out how to leverage software to reinvent ourselves and we do business we listen to their stories and ask for advice and tactics on how to survive and thrive in a software defined what today software defined survive and then all of sudden there is a space that start thank and we asked cables stick if you are well I and I thought that was the area with those opportunities that the IT space but everything that sits in the datacenter space is more reliable more feature backs and infinitely more welcome to software defined survival my name is Patrick Murray in today’s guest star his career at Cisco where he was involved with everything from designing and implementing their internal office networks to business development for Cisco’s proof of lab kind of proof of concept glad he also worked at shell global solution’s where he was responsible for the global reference architecture and solutions designs for AB collaboration and CCTV is currently marketing director or you’ll have to correct me if I get that wrong at IBM solutions which is a consulting and design firm in the Netherlands welcome Misha Misha fenders correct me on all that in a second welcome to this well thank you very much them yet so mischief on the stove sis which is console the rest was the treaty at pretty corrects managing director of IBM solutions from the Netherlands them will brief you statements sat through excellent thank you for that is there anything you’d like to expand upon about about that introduction and you know I I think in light of the conversation that we’re asking is the the the backgrounds that I have and the legacy that that we carry Kenexa every well into this into this topic and I came from an IT backgrounds and like most of the people I’ve met so far in the AC industry and and that I see background has been as a result many firsts as being dispersed as voice over IP deployments in Europe going away from traditional P. B. access to and an IP enabled said medical manager at the time going for the first wireless working with universities in the Netherlands and around the world to develop the wireless protocols and the standards and to go from real standards based CCD feet to an IP enabled should your surveillance system and yeah due to Cisco I actually rolled into the yeah that AC space realized that it was well a fairy boon regulated says space and and so a lot of opportunities and and those opportunities are now how I have few years later finally manifesting itself in this whole topic of IP enabled said I T. enables and and clouds enables connectivity the wild west of AV can can you tell me a little bit about that transition what happened there at Cisco that got you involved with a yes it was in their way was very very interesting so the wild west of IT was in the mix that early nineties it was fantastic time where I have projects would be left right and center offices will be deployed Cisco’s internal offices will be Abby would install an office a week and when we had done everything in that so the in in Europe later Middle East Africa as well and even later into full at emerging markets if there was something new that’s is glad you would just go in and add that that’s gave a lot of space for interface and for personal development ad for networking in the broadest sense of the words and at one point we we got in full into the holographic telepresence and we helped to develop that’s which was absolutely fantastic but it was always the DAC portion where Wesker Prisco some projectors science and all those kind of things and starting to realize there was already some hate it’s different worlds rather we knew at a field the from all the office of the officers that we deployed but we never really got around to it **** as an IT yeah organization and the screens were the present screen Satele drawn first it was just screens in a room that sway you connected to the PC with CJ or or and may be the CIA if it falls fillable and but it was there and then and starting to add to talk to the guys that did show production that we organized that the Cisco networks and just go live for a few years there were all these companies like yours Johnson coming in and bring in all the states heaps and heaps of kits and equipments and it was at one and say Hey seem to work quite well and at the same time it couldn’t work with anything that we had which was sick why did you make money and starting to stink and starting to work for a company that says like well date got everything that you’re doing needs to be per faces doesn’t matter where you are and then all of sudden there is a few space that started saying it needs to be absolutely perfect and and we have cables the stick if your arm to run for a while why ends and Anya in that space coming from that sell across the presence of the projects I realized that there was a whole market out there where we could so we could actually and it was and well off the two thousand census was two thousand seven I think that that it was my real first introduction that into this into this area and I thought that was the area with all those opportunities that the IT space had in the early to mid nineties so I got into its and it’s being that is being very much it’s very fun is very fun right I like the way you were you you compare the opportunities that it did we always say that AV kind of flags ten twenty years behind IT and %HESITATION that’s one of the things that I really I really haven’t thought about is that you know this in the during that transition the early years of IT there was a lot of opportunity and and that may be present now on TV as well and you also talked about how he could work like the show production guys in the AV people there their stuff just it was so different than I TT and and dealing with data let the AVIC convergence right but it’s it’s it’s actually more of a clash at the time it was was was definitely a class or if it wasn’t even a day but just Santa parallel boss that would never cross and read that damn band videoconference came along it was a your friends but say the experience and some local people in your show except the but the experience of safety was really or as people coming in and now I do you support the war technical support and to come in and explain to people how the the remote control work of video conference system and then use ice the end to dial out because you want to do something really really difficult and all of a sudden there is this as the easiest to telepresence portfolio for Cisco but also the political mad telepresence solutions that came there that all for one touch panels really kicks **** whose phones that could be controlled said there’s always the a lot of technology development and going on dad’s what would let Fritz out all the technology that’s it’s in their **** it can be easy and that was what what the present was about in the beginning it’s easy is high quality you don’t have to do anything and of course in the very first deployments were difficult and sent to build a telepresence system mad at the show which we did so is like going around all Cisco’s expose that was also a lot of work you would be the I. T. equivalent also show guys because it was lots of boxes and screen somewhat ask you but installing that in all fairness and all of a sudden leasing that’s for years and there are still many of the systems that have been deployed says a hideout almost twenty years ago that I still see around and I guess that testifies to the stability off that IT environments and a since we last week we actually had a company yak coming %HESITATION square in the not so let’s see they were saying that the still have offices that use got three and it still works and that was a deployment of thirty years ago Sir can you imagine that any of the A. C. technologies would still work off thirty years that it’s as an aim for signal the bin as just that a cable between your laptop and your screen buds infrastructure cabling because I had to get three would also do still sufficient data for for what’s what their applications work so that’s that’s I guess the promise all flights he did this a long term investment so you need to have a long term strategy need to make your decisions rights you need to understand the the IT space in order to really leverage swat is coming up in the a few space because there’s definitely benefits in the in the a few space and set the opportunities are such that it’s within the a few space you will be among if not to the desktop contends producer on add on a corporate network and the D. emailing your friends it’s it’s only small portions but start to do IP encoding and streaming that still sign it’s all your video surveillance then all of a sudden if that’s in the a few well or in the next realm good that’s where the content is and if you order one that’s controlled the contents than that you can also see the well get your the one that probably both from to come at it a customer and what’s what’s this goes said in one what’s discussed description was said back in the day it was the plumber off the internet so if your if you’re going to build the house shaking too cold Lamar or are you going to call the architects and that’s what it is what this is about and that’s also works with these opportunities are about Saturdays you want the architects to to tell you not even the consultants anyone to ask people with with a very wide on the standing to to give you an overview on how you could move forward how you can really have a long term investment and not all that’s how you can secure your whole environments as to well whatever left will you require and say we work with companies that that that work up to J. weeks lawful lab and military security rates and at that that’s completely different ballgame than that what standards AC or even standard IT is all about yeah absolutely there really put things through their paces in the in the in the defense area you touched on a whole bunch of stuff there we’re not going to get through it all but there’s a few things I’d like to circle back to and numb I really like the way you talked about that how that cat three infrastructure still does the same thing as today’s so you’ve got this long term standard the planning was you know this thing will always have data that goes over but what happens is in AV is that the signals change right we have completely different signal types today HDMI than we did many years ago which was all analog so it wouldn’t even be possible to make any kind of an in a long term infrastructure in that sense but now that we’ve switched to digital I guess %HESITATION everything could be over the network because it is now just data but %HESITATION that the mindset of taking that long term architecture approach need to catch up to the end is as complex as it’s a complex ways is not very complex transition but you need you need to make that transition and you need to think about its and what you also see is that the industry as a whole and the industry is not backing that’s as that idea and why am I saying that so the industry is obviously backing the idea of standardized cabling which just why AC based you came along you can use your your your cat five or cat six that will better infrastructure buds it’s a different protocol so therefore it doesn’t transfers over the network that shoe that you have which is set a which is a problem AT be is also a problem because a few beats I have there is that many fantastic things about its but the problem and the real problem is that none of the and the prices stats that I know and probably none in the world will have to fool a few be enabled infrastructure so unless you’re coming in the segregation road again and you start to deploy your equipment parallel to the I. T. network then you and you’re not going to see the benefits off a few B. as social that is that’s one thing and that that that there’s other protocol standards and to do the or regional implementation all done so without to dent the domain controller Watson IT protocol absolutely as it runs on an IP network it can you can communicate to multiple devices that was a moment surveying troll elements into it but at the same time it would end cross she leads and if if you if your a night do you know that C. lands are my logical groups of IP addresses that you have in the building that belonged to separate ranges and sometimes say you want all of them to talk together sometime she wants to apply axis list or as like strengthen your security even further good with them to without any of the security considerations you could not all from one network segments to the next whereas from an audio perspective to why wouldn’t you want to go from the first floor to the second floor in the building and that that’s a logical box and and and if you follow that pause why would you go outside label to to another building because arguably you can see aching hole or as we swayed and with this in the few that were happening we using soon which is software and goes over the internet and it’s it’s pretty good but there’s always a need for better or more reliable quality or a quality that runs in parallel to your to your common office tools because your in in trading Adam excuse you begin trading they have all sorts of lights you go through the whole arm and say you got your direct communications and then there is always online stats that are happening and also to you Lou cats at the mixed stack protocols where is the only way to deal with it is oh for an I. P. naval networks IP is pervasive and it really needs to be professors to the matter to the letter and and and and to expand upon that even further add the the whole new line of thinking at all everything in four K. space for instance it’s fantastic it’s four KT sixty four full four planets as soul which is almost bus were set aside that were already with AC at the time but it’s do customers really need debts of course this whole area of customers that will need it but in a standard office environments where arguably for gay will be quite useful and that some of the displaced vehicle or affordable so why wouldn’t you have four K. but to to have a four K. solution that okay the move off I think two thousand sixteen it was with us at all we got four K. for for a rat and sixty frames at ten gig really cute as a well let’s stand gig line on that than kicking my network so when I call icons really deployed that maybe one or two units and now we’re at the we have that same quality but we do it at night mac I completely nine then that make it my network and one or two units but if you understand how the infrastructure is being built dads Debbie guns and quite incredible we’ve done deployments with with hundreds of IP encoders decoders if you start to follow that nine hundred make roads that and look at what the up links with your switch capacity needs to be there and it’s not even back Frank best is just a plain capacity that doesn’t exist eating in any of the testing and the prices and and that’s the whole point you need to you need to have that architecture bring it together and say yeah that’s fantastic and there is a need for it’s a medical lab we use fiber connections where you have some compromise quality maybe that Indian exploration you need to have and compromise quality Oxley in entertainment you once after quality because that’s what people pay for but then there is a whole other remained stats just one so bad good quality then will not see the difference and that don’t really care about the difference if if you are one on art should be sell the X. or Y. and as long as it’s sort of similar them it’s it’s fine and deuce people which is good ninety percent said it not ninety nine percent of the enterprise said environments only one that’s as anyone to half that pervasiveness again they want to be able to say I’m an engineer all want to have quality that is better than what my scarf business can get supplied me or I want to run a comb and sharing feats to a colleague in another building or in another country in parallel to my meetings that I’m running because I would just working on the problem why would you not allow them to do that’s so why would you go for an infrastructure that steers to that route so there’s a few things I want to address their %HESITATION you mentioned a bunch of protocols right so each she Beastie ABB even Dante and he did a great job of of breaking it all down and %HESITATION making the argument that everything has to be IP I totally agree with you there and %HESITATION it’s it’s a real challenge to find a protocol that that is purely IP and and please by all of all the rules state that I. P. requires like V. lands are there any protocols out there that you have your eye on that album which to fill all those seats yeah able you see you see that the protocol start to develop a then to get to to do maintenance here we’ve being that talking to the alternates the people and and many people are talking to order dates and said a day understand now what what needs to happen we’ve been talking to two people of QC to buy an ad two two and short at the stifles protocols can work in and prices like that shell or any of the other companies and all of videos sights you see there is always the markets and this list H. two six four eight two six five and with it which is old which is all good but that’s that’s it and that’s where where do you make the choice as a manufacturer at are you going for in these markets are you going to say okay we have this solution and it’s uncompromised quality is fantastic and I can testify as some of these products are really really cute **** at the same time as the that that’s that’s a fairly small percentage of the markets and if you go to it’s still very cute but is not fantastic and then that there is a difference in how you yet it’s very subjective what you want to fly but then a you can get to that reached so is there a single protocol no there is not a single protocol it’s it’s just stack it’s an idea all saying statue that you need to do Hey it’s about security that’s that’s the way that’s a TCP IP protocol as we built it’s it’s old different layers different stacks and different elements steps that have been described and that that that are compatible SNMP as the is one of those said things eighty two dot one ax is something and and if this if you’ve if you consider that said if you do your engineering backwards and that’s what’s so that we’re doing in our test lab was almost a manufacturer’s we start to talk to them we get their products was deserved okay you can do whatever you do whether it’s video or audio or you can do that very well Bucks now lets states to be the other way around would this product be suitable for an enterprise not on its quality sat on is downright qualities but on what is around it because what this the enterprise needs the enterprise needs monitor ability so you need to be able what your devices doing you need to be able to to maintain a surface level and that is ideally five nines so that’s five minutes downtime year of the loss and you need to to have control because you can only get that kind of stability if you can control lets you need to have security Adam there’s old and new chapter now way in in Europe whiskey deep yard the general dates action regulation what are you going to do with all the days that where are you going to stall rates can you actually at the front end of the network where you are going to transmit contents can you do something there embedded there’s a whole bunch of stuff that it’s our questions to manufacture our debts that are outside off their core business center or businesses for instance forget switching back and it’s not security that it’s not as a remote operations but it’s very important AA if anything’s probably the most important thing in enterprises today absolutely absolutely that’s that’s come up a few times on the show is a because of the switch to IP based software dealing with data we need to start engineering backwards instead of starting with the equipment that we’re used to and and the gear we should be starting with some wealthy end user experience and obviously like you mentioned in the enterprise you have to consider their needs first and if you work backwards from there then %HESITATION to show probably only have a handful of solutions that that will work for you I like the way you broke down those different pieces of wood and enterprise needs that there could be a a product roadmap for for some out there looking to develop a product you talked about it so it all comes back to architecture is what it sounds like dealing with work yen’s I’m I’m just curious I don’t know if this is off the beaten track or not what what do you think about ten gig networks are they going to become pervasive or is that something that %HESITATION will will be %HESITATION unique no ultimately you will you will get that as %HESITATION but said it comes down to cost reports and then there there’s a few companies in the world dad’s pretty much have dominance over the switch markets and so Cisco juniper HP as few others extreme but they already start to play in the margins and and if you look at their portfolio is not that they don’t offer ten gig switches butted in there were courses that they have then kick is not that common and it’s also that in the end the price and said it’s it’s it’s a stack later you can access layer of all the switches that is where all the a few quick mind will be connected to my old cameras and encoders and decoders senior screens and anything that you ask then you got your distribution later on if you have a larger networks and you will have all your sure first ad and your HP services connected that there might be a core later these days you see you collapse score distribution pending on the model buds those are big investments and if you if you start to talk about investments and we we had the we spoke about the late one infrastructure cabling early X. cabling is the investment that will stay in your building the longest started to get three different we long for your your gets Pfeiffer as feisty York at six at six a it’s it’s wrong you you pulled that it’s a lot of work it’s it’s all right it’s often and it requires a lot of construction or lan is like tearing down buildings full ceiling school debates all those kind of things you don’t do that very often so if that stays there then we know that we have right now on most well not most but on a lot of the cables that have been deployed in everything that will be deployed from today onwards you should be able to run thank rights that’s most notable books and then you got your switch architecture and with the switches you need switches export extrication there is always the all and line of thinking how to go to two full wireless and a wireless protocols become better day become more stable and their race five G. coming up where to potential at the moment staff already managed to get speeds of one point zero five gigabits per second on five G. but the potential Lestat it can actually get to ten under kinky along on the stock protocols as soon as the terminals are there and I think that I read to actually this morning from one of my old school collection article that said that the five G. would be able to do Adam a million devices per square kilometer and that’s that’s how which could serve so then at even if you are coming to transmit everything on on Dan cake that and maybe not but there’s another interesting salt there and talking about software there there are a lot of and it will not not a lot but there are few companies now in a world that start to develop new what protocols that start from scratch that unstable we got eighty six for now let’s starts the H. two six five that’ll really re engineering compression protocols from the ground up making use of common off the shelf hardware and and and it can do compression and in in a much smarter way and off of even seeing as I’m com and was actually the NTG for for Japan is now doing the H. K. that they want to run for the Olympics in twenty twenty or something like that at what twenty twenty two but Adam what what they were saying we can do that eight K. compression or dated eight K. resolution of four times four K. on eighty five megabits per second so if that’s the case then what does that mean that means that you need to have a proper hardware encoding and decoding of course which is expensive if it’s if it’s a novelty but at the same time it also means that you can have incredible and resolutions over very limited spends with and then you don’t need to upgrade to infrastructure so will the cost be in upgrading your infrastructure I think over time bad things reprises will drop one kick will become or ten gig will become a standards but if you look at the one kick now there’s not a lot of applications acts actually do require one kick your PC in the office is not system benefiting all that much and benefits off one cake is dad’s it’s quicker in timing so even your your voice packets will perform better on a one gig laying down on the one on the mac link but it’s not that you need all that space and that’s so that meant that it is difficult for the difficult thoughts but I don’t think that studying video protocols and an old compression dad step nine hundred mac or ten cakes as uncompressed SD and Sir it will go to the novelty solutions that will use a fraction of that over your existing network and then you can really make a all you step forwards well really great stuff great overview we don’t know how it’s going to play out we have the infrastructure in place with the the cat cables but I’m I like the way that a you know compression may be the answer instead of %HESITATION increasing bandwidth that saw interesting take you mentioned a test lab research lab and I’ve I’ve heard from a few people about this can can you tell me a bit about your your research laboratory yes yes it was a what we have in in entering into ball when we started the company we started to provide consults and actually we started with implementations them and I thought well I day since this is really brothers complex job it’s hard work and the then you need to you need to prepare and that and we see implementations you have staging area but it never really stuck to his only tested if the stuff that you have selectable paper stuck to work together from from that architecture is a said there is a solution architecture that you need to create and then you need to implement the technology but that’s technology as set gets skits I’d be connected you need to know to quality off that technology before you do that Sir I don’t like it sweat and when I asked to make decisions purely based on a custom or manufacturers spec sheets because it’s not it is not that is not true it is often the stuff that is not in there that becomes important and I guess everyone knows the as the content protection issues that you could have between different types of equipment there’s one doubles testing but said we are in the realm all schools and the price so we test for security or read the remote support and all those kind of things and then you can see that it’s it’s just not there there’s only a few companies that are not even call systems that have a couple of products that are secure most of them are not secure and some of them don’t even consider security anyhow test lab we’ve said let’s let’s not get to the test all does this I’d be encoded to decode it works very well when it’s on the same switch no does it very well works very well if it is sits on an enterprise environments so your whole speckled lan switches from hopes if needs be we’d be half that’s basically in the lab to showcase we got them cakes which you’ve got five where we got a wee wee cuts everything that is required but we can also start to simulate and did the network between an offshore platform and your core environments and once we note latency specifications Adam also satellites which often around two seconds if you know your jets are correct restricts and you know to back up laws says if if you should do quickly monitor your links or your us your I. T. department wanted to the links we can all take those parameters and put that in our test equipment and then we can really showed customer if you are going to deploy this solution if you’re going to deploy this camera Dan this is what you’re going to see it is not as beautiful and as pretty and as quick when it was all running on the same switch this is the real life is this acceptable and then that’s from there you can define as today’s you can start to say if there is there’s a percentage said old network or there are network as the districts where it’s always goods and then there is a point where it breaks any in between you can you can split it up any way you want so you can say everything left off the bar is good and everything right if the bar is is wrong but it’s Andrew what is acceptable to you might not be acceptable to me or vice versa so that’s what we what we tests as we tested the security we test if it can integrate into control platforms we get a we test if it integrates into the as into the monitoring as tools ideally into the I. T. monitoring tools because they’re very sophisticated birds but it depends on the on the level of customer at IT monitoring tools once are also not not that cheap that it requires quite a bit of knowledge and it provides you with so much information that if you’re not familiar to this type of trouble shooting it will become very complex to to comprehend and birds but yes security reports always useful whether you use it or whether the I. T. department uses its because then you can also gonna say Hey my equipment is supposed to use all these sports but in actual fact we render reports and is using all these TCP and UDP ports that wall according to documentation shouldn’t be necessary so please feel to those out because those are security vulnerabilities addresses all fell you chain there where and it is hard to put a price to security but you know that once you get taxed it can be very costly and once it’s down is also costly so that is that’s important with another interesting seeing is we tested and security cameras sometime ago notes on the quality of the video feeds but on the full you must if you DO feeds forces want to manufacturer specified and the specification was that the manufacturer said we do full HD as on thirty frames on or back for seconds okay but the reality was that it actually did some twelve microseconds so one camera on a gigabit network not going to make a big difference but it’s in video surveillance all of sudden you look at on that shelf cameras if not thousands of cameras and then head that suggests that that’s that’s a fact or on top of what you what you saw it’s it’s going to implement your network designed it’s going to implement the stories that you require add that race this performance issues on the on the servers that need to be coats the defeats so it has a very big impact and then again you need to be able to tell the customer there are ways to really get to that for Mexico for macro sale states bird said it was compression in full instead acceptable breasts and and we we help people with stats in the in the lab to prove their radical chaps and we’ve done that said as successfully as of the last couple of years for various companies and those like one of the companies have gone come this close it now but said we made a cute said to us very not sold the sign and in the Netherlands as works for an integrator it came from a graph came from the IT space and they’ve asked us to to come up with a few design and and and and be sold that’s everything that we did we were able to to make it the sign that was not only add about six times cheaper as well to completion and hats and in place at the time but it also was more effective in terms of how to operate it and at a speed that’s the benefit was completely based all on all software hardware components installed SD yes cameras or as servers birds with the software you can you can start to look at analytics are you at the mall it’s raining which which which promised that this company could have much more efficient supports ad with the analytics it meant that a lot of the work that was done manually previously could be done automatically there is the way that you bank and say we can change control codes actually without a programmer it’s it’s just reckoned drop so we don’t have to have these states enormous high skill sets sold for of engineers in our company I still sting gets you’ll wish you to have fled the highest skills so that you can get buds it is not your your business to per I need to maintain equipments that now maybe you don’t need programmers and you you can ask that skill somewhere else hands and by having the piece you did this this architecture roadmap backed up by let testing in the face and and and one of the things that we we obviously do is we work across the friend saw them fields in it that because she’s a we work at the IT and security and all the official I am and if you water areas as well you start to get an awful ideas and you can also start to do that not full six there is is a quick mundane day to send the world that is identical to what the AC world that has think about men and speed used but also think about it I teach your real workers and with everything that sits in the datacenter space is both cheaper more reliable more feature backs and infinitely more secure server so that it is it is really time to for everyone to Luke across different boundaries and and just well removes the yeah the blinds sounds like a a really really powerful exercise where you know like you said we could learn a lot and %HESITATION improve things and and make things cheaper and more reliable more flexible I think we could do an entire show just on what you found while doing this but if you had to pick just one thing like something that comes up all the time preferably regarding AV where could %HESITATION AB manufactures or solutions software whatever it is is there any one place where we could really use the most improvement well I think it is it’s it’s moving things to the to the cloud or to a central location at mass of first it’s central to the building and bear in mind to the time and the stability of your network which arise for country and that’s if you’re if you really get into that mindset all’s consolidating your technology stand the only things that you need to have in your rooms our endpoints cameras and go to decode the screens bud no longer at the old friends codex no longer and DD DSPs because that will become centralized and if that sits in the cloud the F. of fairies solid and stable basis to build upon because then it doesn’t matter if there’s a screen change every every year or if your screens a need to be replaced or or any of those kind of things Hey your your core and then sits at the central location and once it’s it’s it’s it’s central location there is a whole layer off of innovations that it’s that you can use as ad there is the set analytics can be applied and and and Alexa as you mentioned before the show could be applied to to do room control but there is also the layers of and as software defined control solutions like what do you tell if she offers you spoke about that with John to make a last week dads as sit at that layer all ski as off the clouds that it can have control that can integrate into all the solutions and dad will have to promise to you to be as a software platform integrates with all these different services and I think gathered those those type of platforms can generate a lot of golf recurring rest and you and and long term customer commitments to any of the integrators fascinating fascinating moving to the cloud kind of like the all the benefits that office three sixty five offers doing that for Evey could be a really interesting business model so really quickly last question if you have any advice for anybody who’s interested many companies integrators manufacturers in moving more in that direction what would be the first steps that you would recommend I am rollouts as a long term fashion shows a really understand from your customer what it is that they want this and that and and notes is trying to see through what they have seen and what they want to date because that we always gets the bigger questions of all I’ve seen this a in this company or in that building and we want it as well and then turns out that what they sold was three years old but it’s ignore the technology get to the to do work flows get to process this and see what they want know dad’s there is always security in fall flat because otherwise you’re going to play anymore going forward there is alway monitoring in full because otherwise you cannot keep up your end of the bargain in providing the support and the stability and hands and you had just planets out to plan it out and then once you have your plan is for every genet what it could be very specific but it doesn’t mention brands it doesn’t mention equipment so that it is the is the conceptual flow off what you want to do then you can start to specify that at some point you’ll have contestants Hey you come just say Hey we’ve run a pair and it works once because do you screw the D. statistics on escalates no one asked them as I haven’t seen it from the manufacturers is not in any of the reporting is not in any of the tenders but if the customer knows sits before the integrated dust and the customer has a huge advantage in defining the SLA criteria if the integration that was at the front step and they can just dictate the way that they’ll set up their **** lace and in general if everyone just knows where where the tipping point in in quality a creationists then you can go forwards and then you will be called say that this very proactive and consultant to integrate their customer doesn’t really matter that it’s you can you can control you can shape that the the future excellent so planned tests and the deploy and be aware of what you’re what you’re prepared to guarantee in the industry yes great %HESITATION I think we’re going to have to do a part two some type of thing that it would be very nice if anyone would like to get in touch with you how would they go about doing that I can be a complex it’s and it’s %HESITATION from our websites said W. W. W. IBM and solutions got an L. and I or at my email address Nisha which is with the C. H. at IBM debt solutions stuff and I’ll wonderful Misha thank you so much for being on the show thank you as well eight Patrick here again Moesha was nice enough to mention products that we’re working on called catch connect it allows you to turn basically any device on the network into an LX a smart home device you could also use it to integrate IFTTT with devices and AV systems which opens up a whole New World of possibilities now today is April twenty seventh two thousand eighteen and catch connect is currently in public beta we’ve got a few tutorials up at catch technologies dot com and if you have a few minutes and this sounds interesting to you please go check it out and let us know what you think we’re really looking forward to your feedback so that we can make this a really awesome product so check it out let me know what you think catch technologies dot com and remember it’s still in beta so please don’t use it on any live projects yet all right thanks a lot thanks for listening to software defined survival for transcripts and show notes go to psalm thirty find survival dot com