Episode 7: Erik Calissendorff On Life As A Mega Yacht ETO, And Outdated Control Systems

this is a software defined survival where we talk to AV IT professionals and software developers to find out how to leverage software to reinvent ourselves and we do business we listen to their stories and ask for advice and tactics on how to survive and thrive in a software defined what today software defined survive nobody ought to see it would change usually change any of the other one after we get from the most praise musing custom although since it is to make them into a meeting for us expensive really by the technology is between the ages and the two thousand of us change things happen like in every day invented a control system and apples this is why are we doing it this way Haiti Patrick Murray here I just wanted to take a quick minute to apologize for the audio quality on today’s show but I still think it’s worth listening to that’s why I’m publishing it because today’s guest gives us some really interesting insight on what it’s like to work on mega yachts which is a segment of the AV industry that if you’re not in it you may not be aware that it exists at all and they have some really interesting challenges that they need to deal with on a day to day basis and Eric came up with some interesting ways of solving them so again I know there’s a lot of audio guys out there and this may hurt your ears a little bit but it might just be worth it to have a listen cell I promise I’ll do better next time enjoy the show welcome to software defined survival my name is Patrick Murray today’s guest has spent most of his career working on some of the largest mega yachts in the world he has also spent some time working as a software developer for data analytics company called tibco spot fire and I’m guessing that while he was working as an EEO he had some ideas and eventually decided to execute on them and develop pledge pledges a control system for entertainment and comfort systems like lighting shades and he for those of you who are familiar with the marine part of a V. there’s a whole sector of AV where they work just on these mega yachts and the person who kind of lives on the boat and takes care of all the AV equipment and everything else that’s electronic his job is and ETL he’s an electronic technologies off officer so just to give you a little background there that’s what we’re talking about when we say you DO now if you go to pledges website it looks like a simple lighting system with a nap but I know that speaking from some of my contacts with some my contacts in the awning in the street that it is so much more than that and that’s why I wanted to have on today Eric Kolis indoors welcome to the show Eric break is there anything about that introduction that you’d like to correct or expand upon I got to deliver of expansion of mean is gonna start in this ten years ago now or the company after that story needs to be a long time before that and basically what a goal to go into him over the edge of an old house I’m points out this is the thing a long time for no houses to be ready and finally a few years ago on an opening in the global market lighting system which is not working on our homepage that’s the reason for that kind of shift in our marketing efforts excellent so we’ll get to that more later on I want to go back to the beginning though just to kind of really get a feel for your background place how did you how did you get your first job as an EEO it’s kind of a long story about that I don’t have to tell you the bass family started many years ago a tune like that they sell was working us our computer specialist armed forces since we don’t and had decided I wanted to travel the world so unsettled went down to the Mediterranean on the stay there for the summer and then in the summer of folk well I need to get around the world a contest in Europe so anyone can be a flight trip around the world is not much challenging that’s our said our Yasser strip mall land Orsino to look into it and I thought well oceans big container ships to learn all about windows that’ll really the case realized almost on the Mediterranean so one thing led to another and that but in the summer had come down choose your altar and I hope some of the most in Europe and get over to Atlantic and see the rest of the world but unfortunately for both are as all of you has been there is but for smaller only because there’s some stuff but the bigger York’s basically for bankers and leave again so they’re out to get on the grin off so they just stopped fill up on gas and then keep moving along right handed to him on time to pick up anyone or to shift to the whole persisting cold so they can now there walk around their little rock and I think this is what was more or less of them another option was based in the back all the way to Italy and then the show crippled you give them that Africa and basically that’s where only the clothes that I was a little bit down by this nation that that will most likely be our military and so based on the way back from the the rock era stumble across are the reason that some of them coaster on the porch and one thing led to another and are they working enough for them I think we thought there was no like Smalley also micrometers maximum and only speak your levels like thirty four meters was a Swedish flag young and I’m sorry about that myself is your gonna have been are gonna be working on the basically I just woke up to the dock goes yeah anyway and then pull the rotor and pressed them to myself any kind of both women do I really know you lots of luck yet Adam could shut down the one thing that’s another and I worked there for a month or so and during that time is that it opposes up into balls around there yeah looking for some other work to do the crossing and eventually after some time I got a cold Roma measure for a big help to the time I didn’t know what job they will see us and it was one of you big big along yes all of them need some new clothes deliver up to your money I have also your home their own way of not only our own will look back up to the north part was simple sweet and so on awfully back home but I thought well is much much chance to get on the big you also get some real experience and that can how do the rest of chocolate also out of the rain and big deals on my life traveling with him to see you all done as much experience as possible so that will this is so and then yeah position and that they will face as a background doesn’t know a to say that it is kind of our house janitor for the office misleading care of the index sitting here is more votes than all the rest of it cleaning from morning till night that that sums it up pretty much exactly do yeah so I got on the ultimate organising because it is mostly drama which is another very famous yup I would say it’s one of the really big X. expedition awesome yeah I think is very well known if you industry and it’s very easy to recognize because two giants locks on this off thank one the state setting up the the same size there is something here Morial as well on back let’s face it tenders for these young yes especially as we don’t mean anything off of that size is so you shot and that’s a tender so yes you have been asking yeah it’s amazing some of the things that they do when they’re building these things so I love that story ends whenever I meet anybody who works on boats I I always ask them how they got their first job because it’s always something similar well I walked up to about the job yeah and then you just work your **** off and %HESITATION if you can do what you say you could do eventually you’ll get in some kind of a position where yeah where you’re in charge of more than keeping things clean and I’ve heard that similar story many times in the auto industry and I always get a kick out of hearing it and up I like the way you decided I want to travel the world but you wanna work doing it how do I get there while %HESITATION maybe building some kind of career I don’t know if that was your intention but %HESITATION when I I find that kind of interesting too yeah I mean if I’m here is my ideals I mean yeah one from the world but then one can you was getting back to the science and technology it at some point in my life but not something different I wanted to travel and over let’s not focus on my career so there is a reason I was quite happy to do do you they working in that yeah number two number of basic rights are they going to look on the base yeah they offer me their radio Serb position which back then was the same as the deal with today and you didn’t have a name for the year there was no report of data into his own position in his own name there’s also the small thank you so much for all her I mean that I would help out a little bit but I’m reluctant to do that I’m already on deck and yeah nothing else in the us there is a break from my little experience but one thing led to another and after a couple months as a realizable polishing is being less than the vanishing in the left is not really what I want to do the rest of my life and I don’t like being on the seat so I still do destructor air so that right so you see you didn’t plan on on getting into technology was really just to kind of take a break from work and you’ve certainly found some mindless work to take care of but you kind of fell in love with being on the boats and found the way to use your technology skills on their %HESITATION what is so what is a typical day like for an EEO when we were teens is this make sure everything’s they worked off the lights and depending on what kind of cool and those you have I mean I will send you the last person to go to see it because yes quite often autism make yeah set up with the bands or what if somebody is sitting movies or one example is there a loner who was really into football and basically we were in that ask at this time and you have been up to Alaska please there’s always very worked very well up north is wrapped in Sweden where I’m coming from and the other thing is that a lot of fjords and mountains to stop them he tried to watch TV two things to bear in mind or soul the sellers are at the creator which meets the third most BR lower down nor I think you have the satellites the kind of become the problem we have all these fields and stuff in the latest one because honestly mountains are quite high but it was the first kind of issues that need to have evolved from the mother’s return receipt anything about all the other thing was basically said owner had a really big game coming up and you really want to watch this film Alaska isn’t the biggest the soccer fans as such so there was no the station that was even brought companies looking for us nearby calling you come up with the idea well you see it having the right to the scene back in Europe and I’m sure a I’ve also read you give them a call and then roll you should build so you have to do the only good news programming we didn’t know before a couple of satellites and you should be able to get two of you can receive we hope all the sounds very him so there was a call modernism yeah for now the owner wasn’t that much but from our perspective we have jammed his permission I think was like hang around like that US it also hurt me because you know since it is impossible on from that day until two weeks later on the actual game well song also missing the guests were talking about that with like are you should the challenge for us and we had a meeting showed me what he gave us all yeah I mean it’s kind of amazing %HESITATION that things like that are possible but %HESITATION yeah obviously money can solve a lot of problems if you have it so what were some of the things that kind of push you towards developing a new control system yes so the damn thing the normals challenges for your own war with this you know there’s one thing that they don’t understand them for good reason I would say this is the kind of I mean if they have the money to do whatever you want them no it’s not is never a good answer sure it is not an answer all you need to find a solution for whatever they wanted one with another in call the company’s new gaming consoles to come with some new equipment and they look up to their TV and well see that is found the control system which has promised everything or anything else way way before I form will see them or types I mean right we will something quite there seven a I haven’t really seen touching myself before I got on the office I mean using American or online in some magazines but you never tested before this when I was about afternoon in also something else death row is become yeah I can do it but to have to now used this to start a TV they have to take his own remote to change their input on your receiver and then you have to take this for the remote to do some of the crazy stuff and if the owners are looking and you say okay all this money what does have to be complicated yeah and I mean it hasn’t I have a computer back on my cell phone I was really impressed with what we’re also must offer both will this is related in this country I mean this is engine technology I mean why are we doing it this way still I mean you always knew no question they mix in the US as well I mean and they started nothing it was like my Canadian stuff like that they we can make a name for himself and all the technology is between the ages and the two thousand the loss big change things happened and if I like that everyday reinvented their their control system on their approach to things yeah I just wanted to to follow up on that you’re you’re right the paradigm has not changed and I think the example that you gave where somebody comes with a new source and it’s just one so you know it’s a typical thing I the Xbox is new I want to play with it I bring in in why can’t I just plug it in and use it and I think that’s a very simple example but you face much more complicated things when you’re working on a boat for example at this time of year it’s it’s pre season in the Mediterranean and over the winter many vessels will be in the Caribbean and when they get back to the Mediterranean they’ll be able to pick up different satellites so they’ll be times where you’ll have to replace twenty thirty sometimes even fifty satellite receivers and of course you’ll have to adjust all the programming with that and if those are I are drivers are kind of hard coded which is normally how it is then that could be a pretty big job that needs to be done at least twice a year ends anybody looking at this you know people are so busy it’s it’s hard to step back sometimes and say I know there’s a better way to do this why her we you know making this thing dynamic what why can’t it just switch I’m in Europe I’m here and there why can I just have thrown I or file onto a server somewhere and have the control system read that out instead of having to physically go in and re compiling and re install everything so you’re right there is the paradigm it really comes from conference rooms as far as I could tell where you build it once you put it in and then maybe they’ll be some maintenance in a few years but typically they’re left alone so these systems really are not as flexible as they could be so I feel your pain and then the other thing I would say so have our conference room where our residents as well I mean they are the most in moving their station senior editor of one position and yes making notes move basically means that the school you have chosen this normally down the road a few boxes also if your property you call them and they got me on our right another side I mean usually change any of the other world when you have the biggest problem in the most against need for assistance you can plan on that yes I know myself I mean sometimes you have to get a program result in the complete two weeks to get them onboard yeah lots a skymiles Yemen the poorest by the time you get the programmers aboard a yes or left in their quest to have this is not the not any interest anymore so yes very difficult situation in much higher the malls in their environment and typically station I would say alright so we’ve worked on some of the same boats we we’ve never met each other personally this is the first time we’re talking and %HESITATION I know that some of those projects you can see how these programs evolve so I dont will to believe it builds and then it’ll have a refit every two or three or five years and maybe the programming will be done from scratch but more often than not you’ll take the old programming and build on top of it and after a few years these programs turned into like these Frankenstein objects you do and I think you know some of the code that I’m talking about and it’s easy to blame the programmer right but when there are ten or twenty programmers that were involved over all that time it so it’s really hard to blame anybody for that situation and I wonder if we could benefit from adopting more a more modern software development techniques like things like add child development and %HESITATION ends and back up paradigm’s like using get hub for example to store your code and even share it so other people could see it and maybe be more motivated to to write cleaner code you have any thoughts on what we want all the things we mention is the reason we’re why started played in that we have our own control systems stuff because I too limited in the founder from the media existing system wrestling next to name a few what the their systems at the base of black folks fusee is even anything which is really good if you want to do something very spoken very specific but a lot of times your whole thing to work and you as a programmer you can as we have to talk to get this working stretching the functions we require them make does work that you have no time to go through it and make it real nice and then published because as you know and I guess the audience might be a no it’s one of the V. is the last thing to go into a reset or I’ll do they need you need to have the need to have the walls need to have that docking unit and everything is in place mostly without me projects like a loss you run over time which means they will have to have some of the time is the lost people so many people so there was a scramble for time to get things finished my favorite part of the projects I mean anything I mean this is the reason for my travel while stuff I mean I like to send to like to really do things that people don’t think it’s possible to our times yeah about the same time you don’t make a lot harder than necessary either so balance no I I really don’t enjoy those those times because generally a many times people start coming coming up with new ideas when you’re trying to execute on the old ideas and it just turns into an impossible situation way too much so I I’m always an advocate for planning more in the beginning and and trying to avoid those crunch times because with software I mean honestly everything should be able to be tested offsite before you even see the boat you should be able to test all of your code get all of your user interfaces approved %HESITATION and even get most of the equipment and tests directly with that as well and that avoids a lot of those things but for some reason that that kind of planning like you said AV is always last and and the programming is even more of an afterthought yeah I mean nothing’s happening seasons two thousand seven in itself but enough about the pattern the last such hasn’t changed that much there are some new players meals yourself on a some of them the core four is also having a different two things about those two out of there way too limited for the young in this room but at least they have a more finished product in this easy dressing room right so what are the things that make him the yacht industry special what what are some what are some requirements for control systems in the mega yachts that are that that may control a little bit different two biggest ones this was a plan for change I mean nobody nobody ought to see it would change retirement I will not be satisfied with five year old TV’s online they wanted their latest and greatest so there will be changes from you know and I was using a server using as a particular run working on we got our nation is is what should be a song by the time that the livery that’s changed already so is always moving it back roads that this is the biggest one in the market for the second one is in the states and we’ve got four which means you can’t plan for being on site to do all the changes you need something that can be managed by the crew will be managed remotely you see interesting so let’s shift gears and start talking about pledge a little bit can you give me a really brief overview of of what makes it different than than other types of control systems course were so basically please respond if the core I. there was space we have something that David manages to solve from you don’t need to program everything some more conversation and setting up down the shore programming but if you on the inflation side of things within the design of software to okay program itself them what that means is when the nation basically tell the consistent so I these kind of devices low res and the fires receivers major changes screens projectors since long before invested telling them how to make this all these opportunities with universities in Aberdeen the blueprint to ask translating to the language of their system and then the system so can find all the right in this room I mean to you all these different sources as I can find a path from the repair mission to ensure through there extender to your local theater to the TV well in that the cross from where you work it too menace AOL all this water to be available to all the sources are in this room and you get the next was able to test the same kind of sources and get it over and over again right what we doing instead of facing the same issue print on the system find out this is what actually is impossible to do in order or rooms adding sources would you recommend the next you will basically removing sources say well maybe in the case of I don’t want them to have access to that orders to sell my books for example when you remove it so you kind of revoking their methods of somebody else isn’t it is capable of doing everything in the room with things you don’t use interesting so you’ve created a data model that can handle different types of data points inside of a framework correct and so so you’ve got like your typical AV system how do you handle when something comes out of left field with I don’t know maybe and a special audio processor or two or three dips displays or things like that yes I was in this one room unit with our system is basically what we decided we made a rare genetic so the system we have in there softer side of things doesn’t he know what EDS is completely AV independence means you can raise if anything service once we do screens for the screens or even you would use it for something different some way of modeling the well defined path through a maze more less can you say that again modeling the world to find to find the path from a to B. basically is yeah I’m going to of our yeah maybe some would say you have a mentor contaminated point in somewhere could make you can get to the exit of how you get there you don’t really know until you try out all the different paths and saw what this is doing is is fine though ask for your automatically that is very interesting I like the way you describe that okay so where does the system run what kind of hardware do yes this other thing basically is our focus was to make to the brain of the system to speak so we are server based they control system and network base I should say is one of them is basically reinstalling a server on the on the office than me using whether they’re hardly one to use for actually control what end points so when the lawyers this mission mission if we are part of a day in the H. one of biggest overseas you can also move on their part is not and will never prays musing custom hardware for all their employees controls metal release simplify program of the consent process since it is to make them into a meeting across that’s an expensive really box yeah it is focusing on the basis is because it is a big name this seems a lot of clients will to have Christian hardware them I mean there’s something wrong with the already existing programming to make them where I’m reliable all times so we don’t mind that interesting approach so an end does it matter what kind of server use or do you need something particular like is it always axes Lennix our computer here of independence so I’m basing this is software itself is written it off as he can offering to me definitely wants and if somebody needs a device driver would you would you up bring that into the pledge system would you write the driver yourself would a developer like myself have a way to integrate third party products with pledge or what I need to use something like a an external a third party control processor to to integrate something new yes men who have currently a spectrum of two different layers so have their call ya systems then you can make the drivers in the language that’s what we do ourselves or we used to do all that then I’m kind of this and that the language we use them as a corporation five days in the country configuration five to make simple drivers along with and I are cold some simple rules for their lan network Asian as well that’s what you do is mostly used for the devices and even receiver some that some this year’s and stuff like that so it’s not just that one we condition is willing to wait as long but it’s not something you would use for like the latest game for a very heavy media from then you do have a dedicated drive about four I was a ninety percent of the drivers who do not we do need this you never get a language which is based on XML file as some rules onto it yet that some really it’s a really interesting point I want to take that apart a little eighty to ninety percent of the devices don’t really have that much logic that you need to write in a driver you mentioned colitis gape obviously that’s a media player so you’ll need to arm if you want to get a movie list or something like that you’ll need to parse out a lot of data and that’s deal definitely need some logic to do that but that really is not most devices out there now a days it’s actually an exception their import their important pieces of the system but %HESITATION most devices generally are relatively simple send the commands and receive a commands and that’s about it now you have the right to mean saying the biggest problem with new devices today is not the complexity will be doing this morning yeah imperfections on how to do it and when he does examples like projectors and TV’s and stuff like that that you have for the homeless will do something yes some quirk students doesn’t respond to messages during the first or second spot upwards and handle seven months in seven states that that was a step in the fishermen devices the complex as such is just find out how to work more death do you think some they will have a standard control protocol I’m gonna for example I mean if you have the whole market now which is only working on color mean you have did you have a very good gonna systems yeah I was on the Exxon with other so but even there is something looking like BSNL onto the I don’t think it’ll ever happen I’d love it to you it would you know there’s nothing special about your power on command but no I’m not in that respect I would say that he can come back with all respect goes go back ten years then everyone had a higher remote printing and you can use my are to get some basic control for everything knives things which network which was a real life but it seems fun there’s no one way to do control for everything anymore yes so that always means a bit of a a bit of driver writing a bit of human labor take to get that thing under control yeah there has to be done that’s nothing to happiness unfortunate form there is we want to network and more of arms control her he would like because you’ve got a few back and the more robust condition the furnace quite often you get these Sir in the locked as well might have not someone on the list offers means that a Christian allows you to don’t share it means even if you can see the traffic you can really do much with it less important in some respects yes the way apple handles security on the one hand I can understand that they want to put security at the fronts but %HESITATION it is very frustrating for guys like us when %HESITATION more we want to control something in and %HESITATION and our control my break because they push an update next week that so not an ideal situation so tell me about your customers what kind of %HESITATION companies or or end users have the most success with a pledge system control system of basically in tune off years ago or who are we party would be the age of being a the letter in then that the nerve that runs so they do a lot of concessions non mostly that Daystar sold signs for the audience you as we speak right now okay relations yeah BBH means van back I had a holler I’ll put a link to that show notes they are %HESITATION yeah it’s a Dutch company that does a lot of integration work perhaps one of the biggest systems integrators for AV in the yachting area I’ve done a lot of work with them myself in the past and anybody who’s in the out of business in Europe definitely knows that name so what does a typical project look like like say I’m an integrator and I want to get involved with pledge I want to use it on a projects what what would be the first steps to get started and maybe some of the steps at the end as well installation this work will organizations are going to do is get the reference of the dispensation of mission before so what can we could but a system already to connect and is there a particular format that you like to see for that really I mean any kind of normal S. committees will do just fine I mean okay into the chorus basically no we can put them up as I use on the different devices and this well what kind of brands on their device models they are come within the core information we need right and then they still getting into something that into our nation’s language so they smoke five missions and then you use the okay what’s in our database already on the what’s new devices after being there and for the running on the new devices to the device firestorm existing ones basically read the US this is being okay and then what about commissioning then the interpreter would take that programming on site or would you guys help remotely how does how does that all work out number anything to do all that himself on this wealthy corporations can do a lot of us all one thing I would say is this new in two stages of the First Nations and you have to move great thing you know how the system is supposed to work and was supposed to be there this if you have nothing around the old system in like a nominal which means you will get there you are only a touch panels to the older compound’s being sent them house also breaks you got a few forays all the sources I know the rules of a letter if I could do and then when you have a computer and then you can race to take it on site and stuff and it all yet so you can do most of their lifting before you even step on board which is a vehicle and they talk about the timing and stuff mission before absolutely is there any kind of monitoring built in or or any kind of service level agreement type of them when outlines so mean currently we are sending one I find ourselves to resume a head over to the nation we have some answers agreement in the media provides for upgrades in this world being available if they need some changes and stuff like that seasons otherwise I mean this yes and server yeah you’re welcome remote login to the server and see log some nasty was going on yeah which okay Sir are you doing anything with the data like collecting data and maybe a dash board to see how the rooms are being utilized or anything like that then none of the moment but this you could expand on it requires about yeah them very seem to need as you go right and that’ll leave me right into the next question are there any do you have any interesting plans for the future that you’d care to share with us I mean to be honest I mean the big focus not has been there ever since markets which that’s really a llama blow our minds so I mean we started about two years ago and last year was the first really on the market them dangerous in there most of the action is just in or any kind of exist they should we have so been raining everyday exciting in the face it means taking up with quite a lot this last year and this year that’s what I’m sure what what kind of customers do you have in in residential as it is an end users or lecture shins integrator saying there wholesalers today locations so they are direct customers but those leading the team is using is is you and me on the back and he wants us I think now in Sweden we have the sixty thousand Alexis told in different houses from their motives to the sound border so you were basically all over Sweden on every single the town more or less so it’s very very quick out of options we’re excited about that them before too expensive other parts of Europe as well very nice if you could put your finger on any one thing or one or two things why do you think there was such rapid adoption yeah I would say this is simple the bathroom doing so smart didn’t give her the more like systems some respect and we do different from other people is a minimal knowledge from user experience them how to make something as easy to use and it is just all to something that’s been made extremely a yeah cost efficient as well so or about thirty percent more love difficult on diversity getting these smart dimmer with all of these other benefits for the Christians along and say well maybe someone else if I go to the old lady Aurora young kids okay technologies severing standing army always giving them is different because the best ever and this make my job easier and faster so this was his only reason for living up to his death really good prices oath problem for people here now solves a problem blame being easy to use and install and and of course or cost is always a factor if you were would you have any advice for someone that has some new ideas and is thinking about turning it into a product whether it’s an application a piece of software may be a small hardware products do you have any ideas or advice for them on on what their first step should be to to bringing that into the world I mean they don’t advice most learning that there are some of the right to self of what you need is an account of it and there were like this you will need to be a product and we need to look at doing and will have the first nation to great causing it would take your time and with the hard times in the past but it will be our roller coaster in all respects on the FDA would we need to put in that first and then stick with your idea all right put on some body armor believe that what you’re doing be ready and then put on your body arm be ready to persevere and go through some tough times first have your partner and the U. close family and everyone to support as well closely at when will they will be involved in this just to give you the time you need to work on it or other ways so you need to have that there for Iran you happen to be with you in it devils required absolutely absolutely having %HESITATION could support team is absolutely critical it’s not talked about very much either in them in the tech world at all but %HESITATION yeah if if the people you you live with and see every day aren’t on the same page as you then it’s going to make things that much more difficult so Eric if somebody would like to get in touch with you how they go about doing that yes to email us on our newly mentors him for it played up come this close to me and my colleagues so some will definitely connected using that unless you have a whole but just one play dot com up on them Nina cooling unit delta local excellent Eric thank you very much for being on the show this was a great talk so much and I’m looking for to hear more from you thanks he Patrick here again just one more thing before we wrap things up if your navy programmer or if you have one on staff and you’re ready to make the switch to software defined now is the time to start learning go to learn eighty programming dot com and where ever you see an opt in box go ahead and put in your email address some really useful information so you can get started learning right now we also have paid courses at learning the programming dot com by step how to use these new programming languages and how exactly how they apply Evey systems so if you’re at least remotely interesting go ahead and go to learning the programming dot com check out the free stuff in role in one of the courses and get started today set aside a little time each week and before you know it you just might make your own control system like it all right see next week thanks for listening to software defined survival for transcripts and show notes go to software defined survival dot com