Episode 25: Mike Adams on Standardized User Experience, Professional USB and Meeting Rooms As A Service

this is a software defined survival where we explore how software defined systems are changing the business of IT today software defined survival so I think many AV integrators it are still stuck in the hardware mindset was all about hardware and I think they need to involve dot GNU software mindset to be able to understand how it all fits together even though it was a huge budget to you by the the most expensive equipment affords even then the user experience is very rarely seen because these harder codecs are always updated today you buy them they’re ready out dates it was based on the PCR markers and notice you can replace it very easily and his new innovation happens after all the time look at documents is going to bring a new codec every five years as a five year cycle would bring out a software update every month because the ones that change that transition first of all have a competitive advantage over all the other eighty integrators who are still stuck in the old mindset hello there my name is Patrick Murray ends today’s guests got his start as a sales and support consultant for apple and has held several management and marketing positions for eighty manufacturers like poly com and integration companies such as video nations and Vega global he’s also served as a sort of mentor and is currently the NBA Europe Middle East and Africa channel manager at zoom and in case you haven’t heard of that company zoom is a software defined video collaboration experience in use by over seven hundred thousand businesses and has millions of users including myself and this very podcast all of our remote interviews are recorded would soon and I also use it to host webinars and collaborate with my customers and my development team so I’m quite interested to talk more about this software defines collaboration and what it means for the AV integration space with Mike Adams Mike welcome to the broadcast things are much faster it great to be on the broadcast we actually a million companies using do not just seven hundred thousand other people signing up everyday it’s hard to keep track excellent you need to update your linkedin profile that so is there anything about anything else about that introduction that you’d like to correct or expand upon I know it’s absolutely great so I join zoom exactly one year ago this is my one year anniversary and I can tell you you know I’ve been blown away I’ve been the the technology industry for twenty five years I’ve been video conferencing ten years and I’ve seen lots of cool technology super geek I love tact and zoom it is blown away not because they’re just a cool company but also because the technology is so far ahead of the curve so it’s really a good place to be I can’t complain I’m very happy excellent congratulations on your anniversary and we’ll talk more about zoom in a few minutes but first I’d like to get to know you a little better it looks like poly com was your first introduction to AV I’m not sure if that’s accurate but tell us how you got started in AV and what your experience has been with the easy integration space yes it was a Polikarpov had opened a new executive briefing center in central London they’re looking for someone who had all the demonstrations there and we have a %HESITATION European evangelist for technology and being a very enthusiastic geek you know for me that was the perfect place to be and I I just join them there and deliberate two thousand eight hundred demonstrations in three not yours so I know it all comes lesions inside and out which is great ops you love it and I made lots of friends in the holy the industry because outcome is at the heart of it I mean every AV can be in the world as you to work with all the console oligomer integrated all calm so really at the center of the whole industry is a great place to be and you know being there I got to learn about all the different AV technologies and also how AV partners work with each other and for me that’s really important out whole ecosystem of companies whether it’s vendors integrators consultants and obviously designers are designing new work spaces and I don’t mean it got me really excited to be in a very cutting edge technology field at the same time integrating with other elements of the workplace so you mention this AV partner ecosystem do you see any places where that can be improved those are relationships between different companies absolutely I think you know the AV industry is complex enough there’s lots of different years and in some cases now companies compete with each other in other cases they work with each other and I think it’s all a mix of both know we’re all frenemies in the way and our technologies do technology integrates seamlessly with all common Cisco and blue jeans in my size and start each and all the other players out there so we’re we’re effectively friends working with each other building solutions on the other hand there’s some competition as well some technologies start another others and can replace it so I think the way we can work better together is recognized the where we can help each other and to make sure it is a V. integrators consultants and reseller is you know are fully trained and all the latest technology very often they sell what they know they recommend what they know resist always new stuff coming out so we’re better together it’s you by education and having recent saltpeter ship which we can share among each other and I think the trade shows are great place would I’d go to I seen Amsterdam and every every year that a hundred thousand people there sharing insights and announcing products as a great place to be Infocom in the US of course is the equivalent but then during the rest of the year just keeping ahead of what’s happening in the industry I think we’ll make it a better place for everyone to work together on I think the big revolution right now is all done in software we all know this so I think many AV integrators are still stuck in the hardware mindset was all about hardware and I think they need to evolve to that new software mindset to be able to understand how it all fits together so my challenges me to to educate our eighty consultants AB integrators and anyone in the AV industries to understand what that new landscape looks like to to help us work better together I’m really glad you brought that up because it’s really what the show is about you you talked about training being the biggest challenge because people tend to specify and sell and use what they know but there’s this huge shift going on away from hardware towards software defined solution you said the revolution is software and dumb that’s really the message of the show just to shine a light on that and say look there are other ways of doing things and even if you don’t use it in the end you should at least be considering these new options so with that in mind can you give us a brief overview most of the people listening to the show will be in some kind of easy integration spacer background so give us just a quick overview of the zoom rooms and maybe the partner programs well yes it says you really has tried to re invents with a modern meeting room looks like when I was working for a V. integrators before I joined soon I sold a lot of meeting rooms and meet your solutions and that often includes also different components you got your eighty racks of got your screens you got your cameras you guys you traditional video conferencing codex guys room booking screens are scheduling screens you guys AT matrix you’ve got your room control or use any components in there and to create your into experience is quite difficult I mean even though it was a huge budget to you by the the most expensive equipment you can afford even then the user experience is very rarely seen I’m walked into you know two hundred thousand dollar meeting rooms where nothing works properly together where you can make a phone call or you can make a video call you cannot do the two together we can schedule the meeting room but you can schedule the video conferencing system or you can share presentation wirelessly to the big screen but then you have to switch video inputs from to do a video called and all these no discrepancies in the user experience are to be a big issue you know that’s where people complained mediums are too complicated so soon I solved that problem by inventing a completely new user experience and we call that soon room zoom is read the next generation of meat room experiences and our focus is not on expensive complicated hardware the focus of zoom room is the user interface the user experience and zoom is really about designing a user centric interface which we call us seat your group solution so I CEO can walk into boardrooms no technical knowledge whatsoever easily launch anything out participants shared a presentation wirelessly and schedule the room and see all the meetings for the day so that whole user experience core over the zoom is about to build that experience is always seen on trivial we spent years and years of research to build that experience and the secret sauce and then reveal the secret sauce here is of course software software is just it’s also not hardware the hardware is actually off the shelf hardware so the core component of resumes a PC or mac and you can buy it anywhere is very very basic and you just want a special version of our software which runs in kiosk mode like at a close up wines Bronson’s and purposes then use a USB camera USB speaker phone and a touch screen like and I had a crush on the screen together harder components are very basic is nothing special about the hardware and the software interface is very unique and very special and asked me to do a whole revolution there is not only the user interface but also in how it all works together and the fact is powered by our cloud solution which allows the ten thousand people in a single web in our five hundred people in a single call so that’s a revolution is a simple software interface which is doctor Beyer are incredible unique cloud solution behind behind the scenes so the revolution phrase the integrate yours is not to focus on the hardware codec refocus on that user experience when you pull it out zero room you’re guaranteed that whatever you do you have an amazing user experience so you know customers are going to be happy but behind the scenes you’ve got lots of flexibility install different cameras different microphones and speakers etcetera based on the size of the room based on the budget and the cool thing about is softer revolution is you can go very very low and you can buy inspire me to experience for fifteen hundred dollars we can go over high and you can build an auditorium was three screens and twelve cameras and forty five microphones and that works perfectly well as well so you can really go to the super low end of the spectrum and a super high end of the spectrum and everything in between but whatever you choose in terms of heart of components that user interface is always your so that is a big revolution zoom room is really changing the whole industry now there are some other software defined mediums out there the most of them come refocus on the on small hotel rooms on the low end of the market and that actually is a big limiting factor because if only your smaller rooms have that cool user experience behind Boredoms of a complete different user experience you’re completely missing the point the whole point of this exercise is to the standard express across on the and so that’s where zoom is very unique zooming is read the next generation is very exciting so we talk to customers about meeting rooms are meeting experience we don’t talk about one or two boardrooms we talk about fifty a hundred five hundred thousand meeting rooms so the plan is for points for customers to deploy the same user experience in every single meeting room whether it’s a small room a medium a big room those actively every room becomes as rumor and a great example of that is that a company of one knows go over no grades taxi company your seventeen billion dollar business always you were doing very well I did go to one thousand six hundred two rooms so effectively every single meeting them in their office is rumor is no such thing as a as a meeting room with all the video conferencing system we’re meeting room which only has a conference on that doesn’t exist if I can be every single room has a full experience was all your conferencing video conferencing wireless presentation and scheduling so in Chloe’s arms you love it because they know they can go into any room doesn’t matter when it is and they will have the full experience so this is the revolution it’s happening now when you talk to big companies are small companies moving to new offices we don’t talk about one or two big boardrooms we talk about every single room have they had having the same experience and that’s what software can deliver so so it’s a big revolution I think this is really changing the holy the industry yeah software in general and you hit a few points about what zoom room brings to the table and I’d like to go over really quickly obviously the the benefits for the end user that they get a standardized experience across the entire enterprise off the shelf hardware armed is U. S. B. plug and play type of a thing raised a few concerns for me for integrators but the way you explain that you could start with a whole room and move all the way up to a large auditorium I see how an integrated could really use that in their business to start small to handle anything they could but nonetheless I think there’s a bit of a business model that needs to change if you are to be AV integrator when you’re accustomed to selling a some kind of proprietary specialized purpose built piece of hardware with a large margin moving from that to using off the shelf type products maybe the microphones and cameras those are still specialty purpose built type of here but can you talk a little bit about the business model that that %HESITATION eighty integrators may need to start moving to or how it will affect the way projects are done yeah absolutely as the good points of first of all that the U. S. B. thing no I I used to work for today the integrators we are always looked at you as be as being kind of cheap consumer grade products which are not able to compete with the proper professional products like this is going to talk on camera is really kind of the gold standard and all USB devices were kind of cheap crappy consumer things but that has changed dramatically over the last couple of years you can now find is very very high end USB devices with cameras microphones to get action is on a very high end professional system with USB devices so you as bees and no longer can I’ve seen is that kind of dirty cheap low end products you can do some very high and stuff with you is beat on your hands yes the average price of a meeting room will go way lower will be much lower than was traditionally the equipments so easy in two years obviously scared they’re going to lose on the margins goes on the revenue of course NASA a genuine concern and the answer is very simple when you look at these two rooms look at volume you let’s look at a customer moving to a brand new office was twenty meeting rooms is very rare to going to tell any of the integrated twenty traditional Pollock are Cisco Systems in those twenty rooms are being way too expensive so most customers will only put a video conferencing system in one or two big boardrooms and eighteen other rooms will be super low and just idle conference going on that set was soon room you’re gonna consuming all twenty rooms and if I could total budget for all twenty rooms will probably be the same as those two big boardrooms was traditionally the equipment so overall DVD integrator make about the same revenue from all twenty rooms but the big difference of course annual recurring revenue from licenses when you sell software you always so annual bickering licenses so for the next thirty years down eighty integrator is gonna make money on those twenty rooms so overall there’s much more money to be made because again it’s all about sort of selling one or two big expensive rooms are gonna sell twenty fifth Jahrhunderts rooms it to lower average price in total total revenue be much much bigger right so that’s a big opportunity for you integrators second thing even in his room based on USB devices you can do some interesting things with some high end equipment so when you look at our designs for typical meeting rooms we do recommend for some big rooms use traditional DST systems stealing a microphone handheld mikes wireless mikes and all of these equipments are traditionally the equipment which are actually quite expensive or a V. integrated still make a lot of margin right so if I can we’re not saying you should never use AV equipment on the use USB devices affected cemex right when you doing more complex rooms you need some HDMI repeaters genies extenders need were artist Mike stealing Mike’s we need lots of the DSPs etcetera etcetera you’re still lots of money to be made on the hardware even for the low low low and rooms you might not need that meat medium big rooms you sold any loss of the equipment where avian degrees will feel comfortable they know that stuff and they they can still make a lot of money so say on average on most zoom projects eighteen degrees will probably make as much or more money but longer term gonna make much more money is it’s just a different minds I think we just need to educate educate avians agrees on that model interesting about it so I think it’s all it’s all the fun I’m is also leading to greater integrators Iraq I sure you done to jump and they just get it and some are so reluctant to say no no no I make more money selling my traditional AV stuff and they’re reluctant to it but sooner or later they’ll just come around just a matter of time that they may have to that kind of comes back to the beginning when training was that key thing that %HESITATION that needs to happen to to help people make the shift you spoke about licensing and a thirty year refresh which had like to dig into a little more and I’m curious about support I’m really curious about integrate is that I’ve already done this because I think there’s some flexibility right you could go to the customer and say I’m selling you will soon license for what I really took away from what you just said is that we’re no longer just dealing with a room or a group of trump’s you’re really talking about a collaboration solution for the entire company for the entire enterprise if war or small business even if it’s just a few rooms so looking at it in that light as a complete solution package have you seen any interesting AB as a service models that just include the license as part of it and maybe also include refresh of the hardware at certain intervals ends how is support handled like our easy integrators offering also telephone support or to support get routed directly to zoom you talk a little about about how this new model kind of plays out yeah absolutely Sir when you like it zoom we never talk just about meeting rooms that’s only a component of the solution there’s always other element which is licenses for all employees of the company so that they can organize and schedule meetings and book those meeting rooms to take an example the customer was a hundred employees and five meeting rooms instead of just telling them five meeting rooms Rashi selling them a hundred user licenses plus five meeting rooms so again the AVN together can make money on those licenses on top of the meats were and then the second thing is if I can do is an option for eighteen years to build a package would include licenses and hardware and the whole thing so that is a multi service and I’ve read a few a the engineers have actually done dot so they created a bundle was installations services screens cabling was the camera as I do licenses to buy the whole thing your early and so it’s monthly was a leasing contracts for example where did this spread over two or three years and a day becomes effective in meeting rooms as a service which include everything in terms of support Xoom offers twenty four seven support by email knife partners or resellers want to offer their own support as a first line like a telephone support anything I got all this is an extra service they can sell and some of them do right some partners even so a managed service word even control the rooms remotely and provide records and do though basic troubleshooting remotely on behalf of the customer now we often does a web interface because we can do that themselves but we can easily no we easily allow our research dot you do that on behalf of their customers and some of them at every jump on board and done dots and sell that as a managed service yet another revenue opportunities for partners so you’re bundling insulation hardware the licenses perhaps even managed services so your room with the managed services and support you can really add a lot more value but customers are always going to compare this to how much it would cost if they just bought it themselves right they’ll do the same at that you’re doing as an integrator to see if it’s worth it so can you talk about some of the challenges about offering a bundle like that and where that initial money comes from does it get barred from a bank does is it financed by the integrator is this something a small integrator would be able to pull off on their own what your ideas on that that’s a typical again zoom we don’t offer those bundles I’ll be done by the researchers themselves a partner is right the way it works is a customer in the end user buys a whole package from the integrator with hardware and software and services and if I can instead of paying the whole thing up front they just use a leasing contract leasing company at least income you will just spread out the payments over two or three years simple is not releasing any can be matched by the end user themselves or pop by to partner some partners have their own leasing company to work with and some just give it to the end you’re saying why don’t you give this your only some company in and and they were right sin in both scenarios the partisan hacks but any money up front I just know this investment is the end user paying for the solution so there’s no rest for the partners act right I’m so yeah we have a few bars doing that works really well says a great great solution not you also mentioned and you just comparing prices bear in mind that our license price would be exactly the same if an end user buys it directly from Zoomer from a partner stock is in crisis no benefit for the customer to buy either way however is a big benefit for the end user to buy from a partner rather than from soon because the party can also sell them the hardware installation services would soon cannot do right so it makes it much more easy for the end user purchase of a one stop shop one single purchase order sent to a partner to reseller we can provide the entire solution yeah otherwise end users to buying a hard arguments from one provider incision other provider isis from us now would be like three different yelling even more so it makes it much more difficult I think most end users what you’re looking for is convenience angle in no source place order and if the price is about the same anyway you know that’s the obvious choice thanks for sharing that that some good feedback because this is new land it’s not the I don’t think it’s yet typical of the way projects are done but there are certainly some people out there doing it so it’s always nice to hear some feedback on on how things actually play out so we covered some of the business aspects let’s let’s get a little technical I know that %HESITATION you would encourage everyone to use the app to control ism room but there will be situations where some third party control is needed like lighting and shades are some obvious add ons that come to mind how would you achieve something like that with his own room it’s very simple we were very close to his question got a very big very good strategic partnership in relationship was cross strong so with the question of control like a tea is W. panel to seven or ten inch you can simply of the zoom interface like a normal human interface which everyone loves and with a single press of a button on the question panel you switched to the normal Christian interface we can control the lights the blinds or shades and everything else you want to just design whatever interests you like and again just because I won by attorneys which boxes to remote your back consumer so is this your one touch experience very simple that sounds like a simple way to deal with that but %HESITATION devil’s advocate here that’s not exactly the best user experience jumping from one APP to another ends there will certainly be situations where somebody wants a more fluid experience where they have one menu to choose from different options to those whom call ends there environmental controls so is there an API to interact with zoom to achieve something like that yeah we have a an API second design whatever interests like absolutely and is that this is not to be honest there is an API suite could design your own interface however you like it to be and that’s fine but in reality is I don’t recommend it because the whole point is we spend millions of man hours designing the ultimate user interface resume room so she tried to re create your own interface and change things around you’re basically missing out on that optimize experience we’ve designs right so I would still say I would disagree with you I would say that the best user experience is to have the normal zooming explains where we’ve designed it and was a single present a single button you switch your question interface to control the lights in the blinds it’s better off with a single but he’s just boxes room interface I would argue for me that is the best experience money can buy I would say that’s better than trying to re integrate some of the zoom and buttons on your own and we’re gonna miss out on the on the the holes in them integrates a moment experience with designs there will certainly be times where that is the right thing but I’m not one to make %HESITATION any kind of %HESITATION I don’t like to say that this is the solution for every situation because what we do is many times custom sure if you have a hundred rooms with just the display it’s pretty obvious that there will be for the ninety percent the one solution is the right way to go and this is a lot like Sony’s like the sonos app is very rich and people want that experience but if you integrated into a home they’re jumping back and forth between apps may not be the right thing for a certain set of people that’s why I ask about that it’s good to know that there is an API and integrators to have that option yeah absolutely so moving forward %HESITATION if anybody’s looking to move to a more software defined system software defines collaboration ends there perhaps a little hesitance what would your advice to them be well effectively although you know that I think the biggest hesitation is people don’t like the idea of having a Amaker PC running stopped in a room writing having at a codec from Cisco impala convinced a closed system right now we can play angry birds all that stuff but effectively for all intents and purposes to piece your marketing Zoomer is a close appliances well the way we set up the zoom software on a piece you’re mocking his own room is literally completely locks down she cannot do any softer days I mean there’s no other apps running if the PC reboots itself after power cuts for example if you remove directly to zoom out so effectively do use will never ever seen the mac OS or windows ten interface the only thing you’ll ever see is a full screen zoom into so for all intents and purposes and works the tree like a close appliance so there’s really no difference was a traditional code right the family’s softer for the user interface means you have a choice you can choose to put an iPod as user interface and then lock it down to a dozen or any other software or an android tablet Republican trio request on your career question GSW screen again the factor used software gives you all the different options in terms of which hardware you want to choose based on the budget based on size of the room etcetera so I think you get the benefits but no downsides the benefits is flexibility and choice and there’s really no downside the only perceived downside is again the fact that the microbes you write Robert and I’d close appliance as I said it is actually close appliance for all intents and purposes the same now we are working with dell traction build a specialized PC where the only option she can ride is doom and nothing else is even more locked down she can not even install a drop and that’s coming out in September person does single darkly by dell dell windows PC business of running the normal windows operating system will be want windows ten I owe it to you internet of things just special version of the operating system completely locked down on his room up so you can not install any other out which is completely locked so will work exactly like a close up clients effectively meant that there there goes that education thing again %HESITATION the electronics are almost secondary it’s it’s the image that that is on there that really is determinant of how things function how do %HESITATION IT administrators what’s the experience been there with some deploying these things on the network and and dealing with certain requirements there have the when you set up as you run a PC for example and you can complete law completely block a softer dates to make sure it doesn’t start updating the operating system while you’re in the middle of a call right or instead of dots for some companies to set strict security requirements to make you always have the latest software updates we simply schedule them every week on a Sunday morning at two AM because I usually when the museums are I’m teen most companies so every Sunday morning at two AM eastern macular will do it softram dates and then by Monday morning when people walk into the room it’s ready rebooted darted back into the zoom out so you’ll never know it actually happens these abuses are always up to date right are the second thing is when you’re deploying awesome I ties your controllers rooms you also want to lock those downs the only run the room controller OP and nothing else and also all the softer days are done in the background before the ads if you move out of the box management solutions out there is what they got NDM mobile device management so these are third party software apps for IT administrators to remotely deployed hundreds even thousands I thousand PC’s and do all this after this remote so again there’s quite a few solutions and we were always recommend when you deploying a large number of tumors sure and then you also know that I went interface resumes control all your tunes remotely to softer this remote the two were softer version is installed so it’s very easy to manage all remotely and a cool thing about that web interface you also can control you all comments just comedians from there as well as a single view your I. T. administrator can match zoom rooms Pollock on rooms and Cisco rooms all from a single view says that you have a great solution for enterprise customers in the mix this state lots of different codecs yeah sounds like a some more opportunity with that the managed services and %HESITATION in with the MGM for deploying apps iPads I use simple MGM to %HESITATION managed remotely some iPads and and %HESITATION yeah it’s pretty interesting so %HESITATION any parting thoughts well I I think the whole industry is really moving in that direction and there’s still quite a few vendors either focus on the hardware’s folks on codecs you know I I think that’s to me the old model because he’s harder codecs are always outdated debate today you buy them they’re ready outdated because already you know locked down to the specific hardware sets would you base it on a piece your masters and notice you can replace it very easily Anders new innovation happening soccer all the time so I think all the the company still selling hardware codecs are going to move to a new mall anyway right and some already have some are you still in transition so I think we’re already ahead of them we’re ready to know into not that next generation mindset on moving that direction and I think it’s a single is good for everyone is better for the end user because the end users get a better user experience and most consistent user expansion all their meeting rooms at a better price points to end users are definitely winners in this model then you’ve got a V. integrators who are also winners because once haven’t changed that transition first of all have a competitive advantage over all the other eighty integrators were still stuck in the old mindset and more importantly it frees them up to focus more user experience and not on the old legacy hardware and then they can make more money with Anil recurring revenue so I I think that all model is is a win for everyone is just a matter of educating people about and and getting out mindset right I’m so I’m very excited I think it’s a D. A. V. industry is reinventing itself right now I think it’s a it’s a huge revolution for everyone involved and I think the future is very bright and zoom is bring awesome invasions of that space so does the pace of innovation is also very different so we look at hardware look at bottom insisted they bring a new codec every five years since the five year cycle we bring out a software update every month every month there’s at least two new features coming out so compared to the development cycle it is ridiculous it’s crazy right you guys waiting five years for innovations waiting one month and it’s it’s a completely different mindset and I think it’s very exciting so it’s a win for everyone it’s just a matter of educating the people so you know I’m I’m very excited to be in this place and I look forward to having lots of eighty new AV partners joining us in this revolution absolutely it certainly is exciting and the effect of software on AV is it can be quite beneficial like you mentions just the arm the update cycle if you could add new features at a pace that just wasn’t possible when you were completely hardware based so it certainly will be interesting and exciting to see how all this plays out going forward if anyone would like to get in touch with you how they go about doing that are they can just contact me on only ten it’s Mike Adams it soon or just send me an email happy to take any emails my god Adams it soon got us are just look at our our resume blogging get in touch with us excellent Mike thanks for being on the podcast things are sponsored appreciate it if you or anyone on your staff ever considered themselves just in eighty programmer join the club that’s how I used to feel I was just an amex just Crestron program or whatever language of your choice is whatever it may be there’s generally this feeling in AV that we’re not capable of using modern programming languages and it simply isn’t true sure there’s a learning curve but once you get through it all other languages become easier to learn and it just expands the amount of options you have when designing a system it’s not an either or decision you don’t say I won’t be using these manufacture tools anymore it’s just you have a broader palate to choose from ends here’s what market day founder of idea box had to say about his experience with the online courses at learn AV programming dot com you know Patrick it’s funny how the smallest things can sometimes be the start of a really big ideas %HESITATION before I took the learn ATV programming dot com courses I was in that Terry I’m only a control system programmer kind of mindset rate %HESITATION when it came to new technologies or current technologies like Java script error or things like that for some reason I thought that was different from what I’m doing and what taking your courses flipped for me was not so much what I learned technically taking the courses it was the mindset of well wait a second I’m already doing ninety nine percent of what some of these most of modern programmers are dealing I just have to learn %HESITATION you know the other one percent and that’s really what I did so it’s really been kind of a big change after taking the course %HESITATION and I would really recommend this course to any integrator not only will obviously help their skill set but more importantly it might change their whole mindset %HESITATION which is more important and and and really show them new opportunities open the door so they kind of see problems through a different lens %HESITATION I gotta tell you one of the biggest changes for me was as soon as I become myself HTML CSS javascript and solve the you guys that I can make with those technologies I just couldn’t sell a %HESITATION Crestron touch him again mark is a great example of somebody who takes new information and really applies it I know that mark still sells a lot of Crestron equipment but for him for his company for his customers for his business he needed a better you why he needed another option for user interface and modern programming allowed him to do that so the question is how can you use modern programming to improve your business please go to learn AV programming dot com and wherever you see a sign up button go ahead and sign up and you’ll get some free information to get a feel of my learning style and what kind of information is available and of course it would be an honor to have you in role in one of our courses and help you upgrade your skills and take this industry to the next level thanks for listening to software defined survival I hope you found it useful and maybe it inspires you to try out something new this week if you have any questions does software defined survival dot com click the appropriate button I’d love to answer questions on the air and if you’d like to help spread the word please subscribe comment and share thanks