Episode 23: Carlos Martinez On Deploying Lots Of Zoom Rooms, Being A Good Listener And Getting The Nerds Involved ASAP

this is a software defined survival where we explore how software defined systems are changing the business of TV IT today where do you find survival the other ones that were huge or being able to understand where folks are taking their calls from from like not only like geographically the like what kind of devices there on right there wasn’t much listening going on in my experience it was a lot of how much could be sold and and %HESITATION not so much about user experience we understand that we were gonna have to move at their pace %HESITATION one day might be this device that they’re in love with him the next day might be this other one my advice would be to get the the nerds right %HESITATION the tax the who ever of the engineers sort of the front end of the of engagement than the back greetings my name is Patrick Murray welcome to software defined survival and today’s guest has held Evey and telecommunications positions at some well known companies like juniper networks Zynga Tessler and uber he was responsible for expanding the use of software codecs into quite a large operation environment at uber any is currently co founder and director of business operations at Luna built a custom AB design and integration company located in Silicon Valley that specializes in integrating software codecs Carlos Martinez welcome to the broadcast thank you Roger thank you for having me is there anything about that introduction that you’d like to correct or expect I think it’s it’s it’s the offense you then I’m probably it warrants and my experience but but thank you for for that introduction and yes I have worked at all those spots and held a couple different positions well you wrote the link in profile I’m just reading it back I think I’m going to pay someone to do that but don’t tell anybody very nice very nice so tell me how did you get started in a V. %HESITATION people don’t really grow up and say I want to be in a movie when I grow up so tell us what what’s your journey been like yeah for sure arms I think like a lot of folks in the AV industry I wanted to be a rock star and that didn’t pan out so when I one night when I laughs I guess the music industry and stop playing %HESITATION I wanted to do something related to music and I ended up going to a small college here in the bay area called expression college %HESITATION and they essentially have three different %HESITATION they had three different tracks one was like a graphic design in the other one was like digital media and then the third one which I actually enrolled in was audio engineering so kids want there that wanted to essentially be audio engineers producers %HESITATION or just work in the field right %HESITATION post production it’s either a my goal was to either do live sound or work in the studio I quickly realized after graduating not there was a lot of hustle involved with getting a job in that industry and I’m no I’m no I’m not scared of the hassle I wasn’t I wasn’t it wasn’t like I didn’t want to work hard but it was a different kind of hostile right it’s the kind of thing where in that industry arm the positions are are very few and and the line for those positions is very long so you know it I know it might sound cliche but running coffee and doing all these things what part of at some point getting a world right and the folks that did have these rules weren’t just going to let them go %HESITATION living in one of the most expensive places I guess in the world I didn’t have the patience to wait so %HESITATION I quickly decided to look for other avenues and that’s when I ended up at corporate I think I answered a craiglist ad and one of my first gig was at juniper networks where I didn’t know what I was gonna do to be honest I was completely new to corporate %HESITATION if it was something that I was that I thought I know I would never do work or get corporate but while I was there I ended up joining a team which was like a digital media team we would do things like our record internal live bands archive on at that time we were using like like actual like the many I forgot they were called but they were like the many videocassettes arm we would like them into the camera should be in that added I forgot what software and then archive them so that was my first gig and not something that I thought I would do but but that I kicked off what I but I ended up doing in the corporate world interesting what instrument did you play where do I turn around yeah it was my life for the longest time and %HESITATION hopefully I can get back into it soon we’re actually doing a remodel in our office and part of the remodel is going to include a music room so many stuff about that nice stressed stress management office absolutely I need it so I completely sympathize and relate to your past up until he started to working to June with juniper I attended I a are in Greenwich Village which was also like a music recording and production trade school and I had a similar experience with the New York City recording industry where nope wasn’t going to be %HESITATION trying to calibrate a tape machine and get the peach Snapple that the producer absolutely needed at the same time so that that you had a similar experience yeah for sure %HESITATION I like to stick it out but it just it just it wasn’t for me so I’m gonna fight then on the flip side %HESITATION you name it corporate but you know anything that kind of has the video audio is for fun video is for money right so you actually got to work with interesting equipment interesting technology and maybe tell us a little bit about that some of those early days when when you were doing the recording and archiving or maybe maybe tell us about what your most successful project was in and what made it special for you yeah arm so I mean back in your birthday was actually very primitive right it was literally a camera on stacks and shooting folks that we’re just talking at the front of the room us so nothing too fancy there it really wasn’t until probably Black Rock which is a very well known financial institution here in the states are actually at the time it was %HESITATION Barclays global investors which was then bought out by blackrock but it wasn’t until then that I really cut my teeth in in terms of video right %HESITATION and not so much the production side of it but the video conferencing side right the permanent installs and and be on the corporate world of being able to communicate anytime from any place across the company in the us so that was my first my first exposure to things like the C. asking them to you in vitamins and really understanding that infrastructure %HESITATION not only understanding how to configure at but %HESITATION how to troubleshoot it %HESITATION how to how to expand on it engendered genera %HESITATION I was really lucky to be here I had I have a mental still actually a good friend of mine Richard Leon he’s actually a director over at the VM ware a great great guy doing a lot of cool stuff over there but he he he’s actually said look here here the keys to the castle I try not to mess it up too much %HESITATION but a like this is where you’re gonna kinda learning at the time it was it was timbre it wasn’t even Cisco %HESITATION you know we had BCS as intense use big we had a big presence and datacenters essentially %HESITATION it’s not like today where you just stand up a few mac minis or whatever it is you’re using and you don’t really worry about anything behind the scenes but in terms of my first real big pride so that’s where I learned the video conferencing world %HESITATION I did some implementations there but my first real %HESITATION implementation where I I was on my own and managing it was a single arm and the mandate there was I showed up once again it was I think it was a Craigslist ad that I replied to and I showed up there and sing after Black Rock in they basically said look already has broken fix it and I was like okay %HESITATION you know how much time do I have yeah I know about you know a month to come out with a plan for for a company and by the way we’re growing exponentially and by the way you know everyone’s frustrated seminal how many rooms yeah exactly how many rooms was it all arm it was I think at that time we were probably at around a hundred and fifty rooms but soon to a double arm across his about right yeah %HESITATION under the rooms of the time and and I think it was called a calm that was giving them headaches and so %HESITATION I was very familiar with the Cisco environment and so that was a first for projects were where I dug my teeth into into kind of all aspects right everything from the list the the logistics of planning the rollout aperture man’s arm and just all the different dependencies that went into transforming doing the rip and replace %HESITATION and into a certain extent when you do these things it’s also it’s also a cultural shift right for all the users %HESITATION so planning the education around it and what not %HESITATION in the good thing was it went well %HESITATION we were able to do a proper record replaced everything from the infrastructure to the end points %HESITATION we had some really good partners at the time that a lot that helped us with the physical integration of the spaces %HESITATION yeah we migrated one hundred fifty rooms from high come to Cisco dressing I like the way he’s talked about that it was a cultural shift I think it’s important to realize that the end users if if a company really relies on video conference and and collaboration which more and more companies do every day today that it really does affect their day to day how productive they are how things get done ends replacing or just it just changing the color of the touch panel for example could you know kind of for somebody for a loop and %HESITATION could you talk a little bit more about the cultural impact of of of AV systems absolutely %HESITATION I mean specifically talking about Zynga I mean in in this is happened a couple times throughout my career but going back to sing that you’re you’re right right even the smallest things %HESITATION folks are used to walking in the spaces and %HESITATION pressing a series of buttons or you know doing the steps repeatedly arm to get their call started cetera and when something changes in something as small as a different touch panel or different camera whatever the case or dual display over single right arm they gave the kind of freak out a little bit and that’s okay it’s not their job to know video conferencing or AV or know why changes happened so %HESITATION the impact came from from being able to well number one going from an environment that was broken and where folks were like you know what I don’t want to use video conferencing to meeting minutes just exploding arm because all of a sudden things are working writing calls are connecting and they’re staying up or maybe the way that they’re interfacing with the system is much easier %HESITATION the the steps that it takes to join the call has been reduced from five to one to two or whatever the case may be so all of those things played into %HESITATION providing a proper experience across the globe and in teams being more efficient and now instead of folks saying you know I mean there’s no way I’m not touching it to wanting to be in rooms and rooms now being but all the time and needing to build more rooms %HESITATION so the impact is just it’s it’s kind of all around right it’s happier folks more efficient %HESITATION and essentially giving us the us the ability to to create to build more rooms and and and do it in a way that data is is impacting I don’t know though in this is one thing that I will I’ve always I always wanted to do %HESITATION just was really hard because there was so many elements I would like to actually measure efficiency in some way shape or form in an existing environment and then when it was improved right I never got to do that but %HESITATION we do know that at least usage exploded for sure what I took away from that is the interesting perspective of how success can kind of have %HESITATION some some side effects that aren’t wanted right so you have like the more the meeting minutes so usage exploded you had more minutes to take care of and if you’re not prepared for that that that could be a problem in the call staying up so people weren’t hanging up the calls because it worked too easily so those %HESITATION interesting side effects of of implementing a successful system are are kind of interesting they are for sure %HESITATION while others in the the team wasn’t too large but we definitely had to augment %HESITATION the team and and make sure that we had enough of folks to support these offices now right and now also stand them up sure and then the next thing you talked about was actually measuring as efficiency and I’d like to talk more about what kind of metrics you would have liked to have measured because I think that’s before you could actually analyze your data you kind of have to have a goal in mind what is it that you want to learn from the data and if you don’t know why that at the start then you will be collecting the right things so Germany thoughts on what metrics you would actually measure yeah for sure so I mean one there’s a there’s a couple things that come to mind %HESITATION one of all my I was actually able to I was actually able to %HESITATION measure later in my career while I was a new route but %HESITATION one thing that I would like to do early it was I see sat right and understand how happy are folks really with the systems are what does that mean its customer satisfaction okay yeah %HESITATION so basically %HESITATION having some sort of tool whether it be real time war or after the fact after the second a little bit harder just because in real time expression of mine %HESITATION and they can they can actually execute on a survey right %HESITATION later they might be my flag the email that they got it’s really hard for them to actually go back in and spend that time not because they don’t want to just everyone’s really busy arm but sees that would have been good the one thing that %HESITATION we were able to measure was the laying of calls arm we noticed that after the implementation you know calls went from and then this could have been both because they were actually stay in the calls were actually staying up or because they were just happier to actually be speaking to their teammates across the globe across the country opt for longer periods of time and being able to collaborate longer but we did notice that the calls were going from you know twenty five minutes thirty minutes to an hour hour and a half right well %HESITATION those sort of things were pretty easy to measure %HESITATION and we were able to present on and %HESITATION but she said I would have been one good that we would like to measure back yeah I think it’s often overlooked so my I my guess is most listeners to the podcast our work for an integrator of some sort but there are probably a lot of technology managers who work directly for end users and I think when you’re in a position like that having that kind of data be really useful just for negotiating your budget what kind of systems get installed how things are managed just being able to come to the table with a however his record to with some real data I imagine that’s got to be really useful it is I mean especially when you’re asking many times on the front end for a really big track right so as a service honor I had to multiple times say Hey you know I need I need a million dollars I need two million dollars right to do you just do what you’re asking me to do sure right obviously there needs to be some data behind that %HESITATION even though I had the experience there there needs to be some sort of data that that are in some sort of confidence for whoever signing those checks to say okay Carlos yeah here it is right trust me usually isn’t good enough and I get it someone asking for that much money into a trust me I would also ask for some some info %HESITATION so it comes in handy %HESITATION in those situations %HESITATION by yeah it’s in some it’s it’s not just the financial part but it’s also being able to to show that things are working that things are improved %HESITATION because as users I mean as far as service owners are integrators we know all that goes into building the systems right and we know what works well and what doesn’t as users or as as management Jersey staff that that you know they just want things to work they don’t know all that goes into it right so having that data and being able to explain the there trends in the industry why we’re doing what we’re doing why we’re implementing the technology we’re implementing is off key inset into kind of garnering back trust in in nineteen team and AB team and and and and being able to continually get the support from from management and how has the move to software based codex made that somewhat easier I imagine collecting data presenting reports monitoring trends yeah I’m it’s made you so I mean specifically talking about soon %HESITATION it’s maybe the easier from a couple a couple different perspectives I’m I would say that zoom now does a really good job of reporting on a few different metrics when we first implemented at %HESITATION who were I guess going on five years now okay yeah forty five years now %HESITATION some of those metrics for lacking but some of those things war and and going back to see that one of the things that we ask soon to do was to implement a survey at the end of it each call for example so you would have your call you would hang it up and then you can turn this feature off if you want to have basically a survey would pop up that was thumbs up thumbs down and then if you gave a thumbs up great it disappeared if you give it comes down a list of what we thought were the things that could potentially go wrong in a call would pop up and you’re able to select them and you’re able to enter your email us so that we could potentially get back to you or just get more info if needed you didn’t have to enter your email but we could collect data like that %HESITATION and so those sort of metrics were key arm and the other ones that were huge were being able to understand where folks are taking their calls from and from like not only like geographically alike what kind of devices there on right one of the things that %HESITATION has been really hard throughout my career through dropped just a constant in general I would imagine is is quality issues right so many times with let’s just say old model but more traditional systems like all the comments just go where their hardware based %HESITATION you could get geolocation because you were installing these in offices so you knew where they were they were installed and you could potentially look at the network at that location %HESITATION and and try to figure out why there was an issue you go into a video anywhere basically from your mobile from here from your mobile phone from your iPad from wherever I’m Danny gets a little trickier so understanding outside geo location and device allowed us to provide a better answer when there were quality issues it’s like okay look where we noticed that this person was on three G. arm and a remote city somewhere that could at least point you in the right direction so that was another huge one %HESITATION and then later on they were also able to to provide a janitor and packet loss for both audio and video so she sat metrics on the call itself and geo location and where folks were actually taking their their calls from I mean they actually have a graph that shows the the breakdown of the different devices was it a mini mac mini wasn’t an android devices and iOS devices so that was really huge as well that sounds a really interesting so then you could take a look at that and actually suggest to your users what what they can you could educate them what their best experience will be what what devices provide the best experience just so I understand a little better were you able to take that survey and then compare it to where the device and and geo location worse so if you get the thumbs down you could kind of sort out everything that came from mobile network yeah absolutely arm and we were always able to get granular and and and you know the the the best detectives and say aha you know like it was then but at least it pointed us in the right direction %HESITATION it with a lot of this stuff it we were trying to be as least intrusive as possible right story you don’t want to do is is %HESITATION have users become ATV our technicians are any engineers so we we try to ask them them the least amount of questions possible to be able to get them the right answer %HESITATION so sometimes we would go back and say Hey you know what whatever question we might we might have that would lead us on the right path %HESITATION and if they give us an answer I’ve been been great we were able to potentially say okay this was the issue a lot of times like I said books are busy and you know that little conferencing call is over so they’re they’re moving on to the next one or or the next thing they need to do %HESITATION so yes sometimes we were able to pinpoint but others we weren’t %HESITATION and that I think as long as we were at least following not entirely showing that look we understand that you had an issue and and we’re following up on it and and these are the tools we have %HESITATION they they were generally very happy about about our support yeah that’s that’s quite different from those hardware codec days where %HESITATION getting that kind of feedback was it was an impossible but it just wasn’t mainstream your your amex or Crestron programmer wouldn’t it I never saw it in a requirement back in those days but I think it’s a really great way to know if your systems are being used properly and %HESITATION and functioning well yen you were there any challenges with implementing that that zoom room solution acts Hooper maybe talk about that project in general here are yes there were many challenges %HESITATION but I think I think it was because to be honest and not they were trailblazers are pioneers reading but I think we we were definitely trying to do it %HESITATION implements implement a zoom at a large scale at a time where it had been done yet %HESITATION if I’m not mistaken I think we were the largest implementation at that time and even I had just a few years back when they did some job yeah I think I heard that the team had received an award for most of your rooms I was not there anymore but I love those guys are still my friends and I I I I heard that they receive that award which is great I think it’s awesome and I was very proud of them because they were huge a reason for that condition but can you give us an idea of that scale I think before when I left we were at fifteen hundred rooms so we went from a small pilot of I think thirty rooms to about fifteen hundred rooms in a little bit under two years globally %HESITATION and I I don’t know what it’s out right now but I would imagine it’s it’s you know two thousand plus %HESITATION and that’s all shapes and sizes right that’s everything from a large space that still visible with projectors and screens to a small space that might you know two or three folks %HESITATION but that was the scale at the time interesting and what were the challenges sold the challenges were and that I’d soon was in its infancy right and so while they had a really good foundation %HESITATION as we started to deploy %HESITATION or as we started to PO see I should say %HESITATION we we we started to poke holes right in and and to some of that potential featuring class or stability arm of the client itself running on a mac maybe %HESITATION some of the things that we ran up against where %HESITATION the integration of the peripherals right so %HESITATION it wasn’t just about saying okay let’s take zoom and install it on a bunch of mac minis and just have it run right the rest of the AV world had to play nice as well whether it be a camera whether it be a speaker Mike whether it be the I. pad at the time the only controller available was the I. right so we had to live so it was a hybrid we had to live in kind of both a commercial world but at the same time a residential world as well right more %HESITATION consumer based iPads to this date aren’t intended to be an in an enterprise environment for the most part right %HESITATION it’s something that is used for surfing the web or playing games or you know whatever the case may be so it was %HESITATION that was a big one finding the right peripherals for the room making sure that they’re controlling that Jews controlling them correctly so we had to actually work with I mean some of the manufacturers we work with where like we’ve all labs for example %HESITATION they had a device called the %HESITATION they still have it the I. you see you see five hundred which is just a simple speaker Mike you put it on the center of the table it’s USB and %HESITATION you you know you go out and buy even having something like the iPad knew that and have the lights be you know reciprocal and and provide feedback something that simple was huge because users for example would meet on the iPad and they would still see green lights on the result and they would be like well am I really needed right and now they’re on clicking read aloud because they’re not sure if they’re being heard or not on the other end so there was things like that %HESITATION and I just think that our so peripherals I’m feature requests %HESITATION another big one that we faced was the network so now you’re asking an enterprise network team to %HESITATION said taking in let’s just say in the building three hundred I pass right all on wifi so now you’re flooding kind of the wifi space and if that why fi network isn’t set up for that well you’re gonna have issues right %HESITATION that was a big one where we were having trouble having had stay up and since the iPad is the controller you would walk into a room and the room is broke there’s nothing you can do there’s no other way you can start your call right %HESITATION or or from a physical perspective the iPad we try to get a little bit fancy for example and be %HESITATION these stands are holders that we use for the iPad were removable right so it was like I had a case and then you can put it on the dock %HESITATION any would charge in what we were thinking at the time was well let’s give folks the ability to control the call from anywhere in the room right now cannot they start their call the manager and volume muting it center at %HESITATION and then they put it back the put it back where it didn’t as you would imagine Wright’s ordered up happening is you know we found I pads in the seats we found iPads alone you know on the tables our were ever on the floor so now we’re chasing all these iPads and docking them and making sure that they’re being charged for the next person to use so we we work with %HESITATION with zoom on on that challenge and saying Hey can we get some sort of notification when the battery on the iPad is down to a certain level right %HESITATION so they helped us do that sort of thing %HESITATION subject just I mean there’s I could go on and on and on in this is not a dis on June it was just very new at that time and since we had a large sample size and we’re going so quickly we were running up against these issues very fast and almost on a daily we were %HESITATION we were working with our our a ramp and to a certain extent even Eric CEO over in June like Hey Eric Frank we need your help on this one I know that it’s you know it’s five o’clock on a Monday and and I’m asking you to have a solution by Wednesday opera we need it right and I was kind of the agreement we signed up with and it was like look we’re gonna take a really big risk arm by if if you’re not there if it pays off it’s going to be really well should be really good mutually %HESITATION and we took the rest can just ran up against one thing or another for about I would say six months arm before we actually stabilize the environment that’s a pretty interesting you reminds me of a story I heard about an integrator who %HESITATION or actually a control company that rolled out a new products and they made sure that they were close geographically because they knew there would be issues and they they view that whole process as a way to improve their products you know not not to use the customer as a Guinea pig they knew their stuff works but they also knew there would be things like like the iPad issue that you mentioned that nobody could really foresee how people use these things in real life and it’s like you said within a few months all those things got ironed out they needed to be reactive the need to work hard and in the end they got a better product out of it so I’m sure a lot of those challenges that you went through the mute not going on and off I know that there’s now an API for soon so that’s probably where a lot of those things were were born out of yeah absolutely and and and when we learn when we signed up with them we knew that we were going to run up against these challenges right it wasn’t the kind of thing where we signed up and expected things to be perfect but the reason that I was essentially allowed to to take the risk was because %HESITATION we we understand we understood zooms version vision we understand that %HESITATION what they were trying to do was the right thing right as opposed to just kind of doing the same old thing so we were willing to take those risks because we knew if we got it right the reward would be pretty large I mean the deal tend to be complain transparent we I’m basically I have them come on site date a white boarded kind of their vision and some of the things that were on the road map it’s at our general and after two or three hours I basically said yeah we’re going to go with you guys right and I was lucky enough that my manager at the time Chris Craven’s shot up to him if you listen to this %HESITATION he was just like yeah look you we were going to take a risk on this %HESITATION because they they’re they’re trying to do something outside the box and %HESITATION and we did it and it was painful but I mean look at them now right there doing some amazing things and then just place some of the some of these hardware codecs and have been in place for many many many years so um definitely not naive to it we were up to the challenge and that just had a really great team that was also to the challenge and was able to support me in in in getting this initiative off the ground and and stable yeah I recently %HESITATION took a weapon are or attended a weapon are for integrators who are interested in zoom room and I was actually really impressed with all the functionality that they’ve built into it and the interrupt inter operability with all the other software codecs that were out there I think come I think there is if you don’t attend the weapon are like that you think it’s just what we’re using now to make this call but I think there’s room room has a lot of features that are interesting for for Evey integrators so you work for a lot of end users and now you’re involved with some with the integration company can you tell me a little about that switch and where your focus is yeah for sure %HESITATION so this which involves a couple different time changes %HESITATION I went from essentially being a service owner at corporate to being owner co co founder with my point of telling my partner %HESITATION so that was a big switch in itself right that I’m no longer under this huge umbrella where there’s a lot I guess a safety net right %HESITATION and then the other obvious changes the fact that now I’m integrating and I’m providing solutions for many many clients right not just one company where I’m just responsible for maybe five initiatives odd now were responsible for adding standards for all of our different clients arm so those are the two biggest changes %HESITATION and so I have to we have to we have to make sure that we’re doing the right thing for each and each each of our clients right because not everyone’s the same and not everyone’s in the same phase not everyone’s using the same technology that everyone everyone’s culture is the same so %HESITATION we have to be really good listeners %HESITATION and and say okay we know one size doesn’t fit all like in tell us how you’re currently using technology in your conference rooms tell us how you would like to use it and just like give us your craziest ideas right %HESITATION and we can see if we can make some of those things happen or or we can just %HESITATION we can find potential alternatives are so those are the biggest things are being able to be flexible and just good listeners because it was I think it’s the biggest reason that Mike and I decided to do this kind of jump to the other side %HESITATION not to DST Amy immigration industry are or anything like that but after being a service owner for you know twelve years I I just felt like it was very patted them and it was like it was like let me try and sell you you know the new greatest biggest TV now right I I know I told you last year that was the biggest and brightest but now this year this is the biggest and brightest and %HESITATION there wasn’t much listening going on in my experience it was a lot of how much could be sold and and %HESITATION not so much about the user experience arm don’t get me wrong we had some you know I had some really good integrators in my career but I would have liked a little more listening arm and I think that the experience is up for our users would have been a little more tailored and %HESITATION provided better user experience is whether it’s a video wall or whether it’s a little group but yeah that those are some of the some of the bigger changes going from %HESITATION owning a service at a corporate to now having to kind of %HESITATION navy for for multiple companies thanks for that perspective are really appreciate that %HESITATION I think the AV industry or the AV integration industry is is really changing rapidly right now and the move to software defined solutions like something like zoom room or just a move from hardware based codex to software based codecs and things like displays becoming a commodity everything all the hardware is kind of moving towards commoditization I think there’s a lot of changes going on and the business will have to change and for any company that’s been doing things the same way for a long time it’s tough to make that change so do you have any advice or tips for integrators that you know maybe those integrators that we’re trying to sell you that TV and not asking enough questions obviously listening you already said focusing on the user experience is there anything else we can do to deal with this change and and be more successful yeah I mean I think one of the things for us for example that we are doing I am not that we’re the only ones doing it but we’re doing a little bit different is %HESITATION we actually don’t have a sales team at Louisville %HESITATION one of the things that we felt was was lacking was the immediacy between a service on earth they meet you see between a request and one in either it when it got implemented right or or what we were essentially the quote unquote sold arms and what was what actually ended up being the end product and so my advice would be to get the the nerds right are the taxes the whoever the engineers are closer to the front end of the of engagement than the back right %HESITATION Iran against many times where we were we were sold something or the picture was painted on something and I’m some sort of system and then what we actually got was different and there was a lot of frustration from the engineering side because they were basically saying well I didn’t sell this and I don’t design it and it was like aw man like so the accountability there was a little blurred I’m so that would be my my advice %HESITATION that folks running the projects on the front and focus on on you know in those meetings out whether it be a project manager at technical product project manager is able to at least get some sort of answers are without having to go through three layers and then potentially getting an answer to the client so that’s that’s I think the biggest thing that %HESITATION that %HESITATION I kind of had an issue with as a service honoring and we’re trying to fix now is limit belt at least for us and our clients excellent I can certainly echo that as a software developer the projects that go best are the ones where were called early and often so do you have any final thoughts thank you for having me having this is really cool %HESITATION it’s it’s it’s been a pleasure talking to you about you know what what I’ve been up to over the last twelve years and and are our most recent endeavor which is living bells and don hopefully it helps other folks %HESITATION you know reflect on kind of the same path that I have been on a like yeah like I remember those days or whatever the case may be because things are changing really fast right and %HESITATION and %HESITATION it’s important that we all keep up with the new technologies but like I said the biggest one is just being good listeners and and especially in the bay area where %HESITATION things move so fast %HESITATION we understood that that we were gonna have to move at their pace %HESITATION one day might be this device that they’re in love with them the next day might be this other one %HESITATION and that’s okay right %HESITATION as long as it it falls in line with the the the master plan then we’ll go with that but it’s also really good to be objective I think on the objective with with if you’re an integrator be objective and don’t be afraid to say well like I know you saw that thing in the magazine and your you know your friend might have it over at at company acts or whatever but it doesn’t fit your roadmap so I’m it’s okay I think to to be objective and to to push back on the client if it at the end of the day it’s going to provide a better solution for them and %HESITATION and maybe it might might not be the biggest margin maker come across a major up but that’s okay that’s okay it’ll it’ll show them that you’re thinking about their environment their culture their %HESITATION their end goal and it’ll it’ll produce I repeat business and and and it just overall a great partnership so that would be my my take away excellent yeah focusing on the long term is kind of a an investment in your own company so if anybody would like to get in touch with you how would they go about doing that yeah I guess the best way is through the website just looming bill dot com %HESITATION if it’s an inquiry but you could also just honestly where a small enough company where we’re very %HESITATION accessible and you my email which is Carlos Selimiye dell dot com %HESITATION yelling about that comes our website you can you can contact us through there for any on any support questions requested chatter great Carlos thank you for being on the podcast he’s a much better if you or anyone on your staff ever considered themselves just in eighty programmer join the club that’s how I used to feel I was just an AMX programmer or just Crestron program or whatever language of your choice is whatever it may be there’s generally this feeling in AV that we’re not capable of using modern programming languages and it simply isn’t true short there’s a learning curve but once you get through it all other languages become easier to learn and it just expands the amount of options you have when designing a system it’s not an either or decision you don’t say I won’t be using these manufacture tools anymore it’s just you have a broader palate to choose from ends here’s what market day founder of idea box had to say about his experience with the online courses at learn eighty programming dot com you know Patrick it’s funny how the smallest things can sometimes be the start of a really big ideas %HESITATION before I took the learn AV programming dot com courses I was in that Terry I’m only a control system programmer kind of mindset ray %HESITATION when it came to new technologies or current technologies like Java script error or things like that for some reason I thought that was different from what I’m doing and what taking your courses flipped for me was not so much what I learned technically taking the courses it was the mindset of well wait a second I’m already doing ninety nine percent of what some of these most of modern programmers are dealing I just have to learn %HESITATION you know the other one percent and that’s really what I did so it’s really been kind of a big change after taking the course %HESITATION and I would really recommend this course to any integrator not only will obviously help their skill set but more importantly it might change their whole mindset %HESITATION which is more important and and and really show them new opportunities open the door so they kind of see problems through a different lens I gotta tell you one of the biggest changes for me was as soon as I become myself HTML CSS javascript and solve the you eyes that I can make with those technologies I just couldn’t sell a %HESITATION Crestron touch him again mark is a great example of somebody who takes new information and really applies it I know that mark still sells a lot of Crestron equipment but for him for his company for his customers for his business he needed a better you why he needed another option for user interface and modern programming allowed him to do that so the question is how can you use modern programming to improve your business please go to learn a few programming dot com and wherever you see a sign up button go ahead and sign up and you’ll get some free information to get a feel of my learning style and what kind of information is available and of course it would be an honor to have you in role in one of our courses and help you upgrade your skills and take this industry to the next level thanks for listening software defined I hope you found it useful in maybe inspires you to try out something new this week if you have any questions does software defined survival dot com and click the appropriate I’d love to answer questions on the air and if you’d like to help spread the word please subscribe comment and share it with your friends