Paul Harris has been CEO of Aurora Multimedia for over 20 years. When I worked in AV in NYC, I remember Aurora as an independent AMX and Crestron programming company that started making interesting hardware solutions. Now Aurora has a complete line of AV distribution products, touchpanels and control processors. They were one of the first companies to adopt a software defined approach with the perhaps the industry’s first non-propriety control system, with WACI or Web Accessible Control Interface which used web pages to control AV equipment.
this is a software defined survival where we talk to AV IT professionals and software developers to find out how to leverage software to reinvent ourselves and we do business we listen to their stories and ask for advice and tactics on how to survive and thrive in a software defined what today software defined survive she or easy as far as lance is neither but one day we were writing code for that any talk what happens once companies the company’s decides to sell themselves spent all this time learning something proprietary by that was if you’re lucky not knowing and Java script you when you learned twenty because now you choose what’s out there on the web and not just limited to what’s right turn the world this company tells you greetings my name is Patrick Murray welcome to software defined survival today’s guest has been CEO of Aurora multimedia for over twenty years and when I worked in TV in New York City I remember Aurora as being an independent a Mexican restaurant programming company that started making interesting hardware solutions and now Aurora has a complete line of easy distribution products touch panels control processors and plenty of other stuff that I have I’m sure I’m missing here they were one of the first companies to really adopt a software defined approach with perhaps the industry’s first non proprietary control system the wacky or web access control interface and that use the web pages to control AV equipment way before it was the cool thing to do so please welcome Paul Harris to the show Paul welcome how you doing thank you for having me I am just excellent here is there anything about that introduction that you’d like to correct or expand upon now you actually mailed it to us so obviously been doing your homework on costs but no you’re you’re pretty accurate DR we do our AV over IP IP control we started doing the non proprietary IT control well over fifteen sixteen years ago on what we are also doing a lot of HD based cheating on our yeah we get around we are worse solutions provided company and we like to go outside the box to make it more of a complete solution for especially for the commercial digital signage government military education those type more the professional markets we we double one residential here and there but mostly into the professional markets excellent so I like to get the origin story on everyone because nobody really grows up saying I want to be in a movie when I grow up so how did you wind up in this industry I was born I said you don’t want to be in the so you’re the one guy that that is what a coincidence no actually on I know you know like everybody on knows what they’re going to be when they grow up like some summer going to be a policeman someone on your farm someone can be a baseball player and it comes true that’s what they do yeah I was always good with on our other tronic soon computers software will be doing the electronics or solutions it just always seemed to are just only to it very easily and so I started writing my first code when I was about nine years old Vic twenty computer all right so long I I guess my first program was talking about your CD some going to date myself on that one in school you know nobody thought they were cool when they type in you know ten not ten hello world twenty go to ten one of those things in schools across the screen your programmers all my job I thought I got my first taste of it that I guess maybe that’s what led me to it was saying hello world scroll up and down the green on the screen and then are you know got some got me a big twenty dabbled with it at the time to using cassette recorders believed or not to our motor programs you have to get a floppy disk I was gonna mention floppies but now you’re taking a step back and floppies and it was just for the reason that first sways to loading code was on a regular cassette format configure I’ll have the apples in a western style from you get computers you know ID and saw a double cross or by the time I got close to thirteen I started doing more electronics I was originally going to like medical and robotics I have a big fascination with that by the time I was about sixteen seventeen years old I came up with the way you do on four thousand ninety six colors on T. shirts for like the carnival fares so in my high school and college years I was at a company called did you try which stood for digital transformations for putting all I would use are needed three thousand computer was subliminal die transformer from Xerox and arches a regular in jeopardy motored up with someone on tie you some thermal paper you printed on at that time you know sixteen to two hundred fifty six colors was considered cool when it hits you should get a little black dots on it and all I managed to get it to print out in a way where it was looking almost more realistic and so on I sold tee shirts mugs things like that hiding carnivals of all things a lot it was my first I guess true invention arm where it came out with it so I’ve actually so that company I started realizing my next important lesson which was on sales and marketing and and I started killing the novel she started learning that sometimes so something is a novel she itself and the novelty of joints two shirts was there was a bunch of dots that made up the image we got very clearing good it just became a four to one I’m sure the novelty was gone so it was cool at first but then eventually people realize was a novelty interesting so you can learn as you as you grow and I kind of just got into punk definitions and marketing sales and mechanical sh slowly over the edge animal ball together and then when I graduated college first job was working for doing video walls and on and on projectors like to tweak on projectors where all you can do the old good old fashioned non surgeons yeah so meter designed to help design the projector on and then eventually moved on to working with integrators and that’s where I got my first dose of law Crestron they enact some program he was actually for integrator New Jersey excellent so %HESITATION what was your most successful projects and I’ll give them a plug she knew Jersey yes okay returning calls good company a lot of companies in Jersey the one from but that’s actually where I got some of money are my integrator experience was over they are well organized job you know we had a good we are dead but it was from there that I took out a lot of what the industry needed and what was like to be in the field so wanted more designs products and I get a good appreciation for what is it like to be in the integrator what was it like to be in the field as the engineer or program so from what I learned from that experience is what helped me figure what people need war I think they need and how to listen to people and put that into the products to get emotionally what’s going to make it a better day for them feels definitely that’s I think that’s a really important points %HESITATION having that field experience I noticed it as well knowing what it’s like to be under a table trying to trying to wire things up or figure out where things should go it’s it’s really important have you noticed any of that has changed over the years those those field needs with the I don’t know maybe networking or something like that the changing of no less connector types or or the needs essentially the same all in the name of the jaded needs saying just the way we deliver has changed now I mean it’s so I you know sort of things are reaching out there is the industry’s worst enemy are back in the day and she was nice and simple you know that you can you can delineate between a commercial grater broadcast verse eight consumer grade and one HDMI came along those lines got blurred in the market got Jerry to store in protecting itself so now you got these companies that really are manufacturers making a lot of products out there because it just sucks screening the one of like ten copies of the same product in the dumper all lying in the whole the profitability are which makes it when you get when you kill the profitability it’s hard to sustain support on when you’re not keeping that enrich the commercial style and digital signage almost industries do need certainty potatoes on in order to properly support the cost is the reason why we do jail and so when you take that away from this industry Colin stall is larger groups right it’s also great to screen all install was born that’s not where we always gauge this industry so one point five meter world was trying to make products that show that there is such a thing as commercial while you use this part that in justifying why did you start products over the ones that you’re strong on the market so that’s always been an important part of who we are and what we do is to actually protect the industry itself what role will be traveling on the manufacturers jewelers D. consultants when we all played a part in letting this happen I’m doing things that we could have done a long time ago to prevent just bought you lead by example if we can do what we do and change that then just what our competitors have to do the same thing to keep up with us and they do it then you create a track and it becomes a way of doing business inside the industry and then turn the dealers and consultants come around to that way of doing business also and maybe we could regain control of the industry I’m back in there de arm them in containers that people were looking for which benefits you know the end users hello I mean it’s not about you know taking more money away from the end user’s it’s about giving them the service at the desert but you can’t get that without having the proper infrastructure supports in order to achieve these stocks absolutely yeah if if there’s no budget then I’m sure there’s only so much you can do to deliver a solution and and help people long term so you mention that %HESITATION there were things that we could have done and things that we can be doing to kind of regained control of this %HESITATION consumerism in navy consumer products kind of yeah making our industry not what it could be can you give me a few practical examples of what we could be doing well first of so for example back in the day you see our player or GVG or chapter because there was a nice BNC connector on it twisted was analog circuitry in use data quality chips which made the difference having an image that look clean and clear or whatever one wants to talk or something that wasn’t as good do you trust heads on that lasted twenty five thousand dollars instead of maybe ten right displays for better temperature better life spans when people stuck in a project that’s what it looks now what’s on that road how can we get it and is it she brought that we might be able to fight three times over what might cost for a regular commercial grade not one of the other aspects of chicken George how how much you know he actually meeting with someone actually does go to a failure because of what life but what it does do is it takes away a lot of the creature geology from should because we aren’t sitting with my new structures are you just need to parks opening his use essence of each new product that redefines the industry circle each Marshall from the consumer in so that a lot of what we do so that so that’s just to give an analogy between how he back in the day where we just have to deal with the issue DNC kept circuitry that digital at this point I mean if you get the server from twenty to twenty two the court or it’s not good you know gold plated cables not gonna help you on this so that really help you much on the alligator but it was a great but I guess some yes I like that analysis because yeah everything is HDMI now and %HESITATION we converted to get from here to there but at the other side of each year my again and there’s not much choice and that that delineation between pro and consumer just really isn’t there especially in the minds of of end users but also if you look at it what is the standard I mean I’ll give you the answer but you know what a standard is and a lot of people don’t realize what a standard really bad insomnia I’ll save you the torture of trying to stands popularity that’s all it is popularity it has nothing to do with what’s right or wrong or what you are its popularity I mean think about DisplayPort when it came out it did things each day my country was a great standard data can act out the locking capabilities at all everybody’s always crying for you know why each team might be out of the market share yeah better marketing more popular cool got the word out there they overtime solve problems it’s got a lot better since its original inception and all in all but your first cannot attach a DisplayPort split portal walk a much better solution at the time and still listings are displayed poor could you have each team I cannot listings and she might sleep working bought just what part was the standard and look at where it is now it’s it’s the lesser of the channel so goes to show that popularity determines what true standard actually gets I mean look at him in the eye for iPhone has become a standard staple product in the industry despite sorry it’s specific to apple yeah you can buy the star party solutions at the license to older people but at the end of the day it’s a standard because they need a popular just like enjoy became student because they made a popular but that is really what a standard in this instance popularity so no one need anything popular that was unique or specific to commercial and that’s one of the problems that happened along the way and also happen once you also had these commercial use consumer technologies there now overseas companies and competent countries that committees are very low cost were like our world from ready to win consumer will suck that much harder now to do commercial muscle dumped on to that market to and then they allow everybody anybody who wants to buy the product shoot slot there so screen on it and become one of these people so what happens now is you get a lot of people who I mean I’ve been indigenous people working out of their houses and they’re buying it from these overseas companies and they slap it out there system these products don’t work well someone do some of them don’t but they don’t have real control of the product they don’t have any real ability to support it in the way that it needs to be supported they want to change our resolve it they can’t really do that it’s it’s a it’s a copy caprock it’s just something that was made by an overseas company that they get the right to put their name on it sure is a ton of companies out there who do that and the problem is when the dealers buy from those companies they’re hurting the industry not helping it to her and I know it helps them get that job that’s that’s been the chicken and the egg problem that I’m trying to solve I don’t blame them because if you’re going to do it and you’re gonna be the highest one is not going to win so unfortunately we become what we all become slaves to it has just domino effect so the only way to fix it is gonna start to manufacture the sticks manufactures got to step up show that there is a better way to do it show that there’s a reason to do it and they keep doing and when the market reacts to that and likes the justification they will incline start the product keep growing the company and the job of the other manufacturers and this is what free trade and capitalism is all about is to make a better product than what I did following the financing footsteps and all on that recipe and then my job is to go across the they did a better job with me now I need to go back and do something better than that that stimulates creativity gas stimulates making industry better and in turn guess what’s going to happen companies that don’t have the region each that don’t make their own products are gonna virtually die down the hallway by the we sucked because I’m not gonna have what it takes to keep up with that and in turn that looks so start correcting the market cost manufacturers started it then the dealers and consultants fault and as long as everybody sticks in a game plan and these original and our products keep coming out then you’ll see the industry will start to go in the right direction not going to be an overnight success story but somebody’s got to start and right now trying to be the company that does it I guess we’ll find out in a few years if we achieved if I did great if I didn’t use I could say I don’t sit there on my hands on my **** I actually tried something absolutely I I that’s kind of unique perspective I never heard that before that %HESITATION that we’re not doing anything for the pro market that is unique and creative and I’d like to be a little more deep into that because you’ve got companies like apple Google Amazon and that some big competition to our to to compete against how do you do something unique for the pro market which generally people don’t really differentiate they just see technology they see technology in their home they use soon and Skype and and and more while the vices apps and then they go to work expecting seem experience what are some things we can do to be unique for the pro market well it’s a matter of increasing technologies and utilizing it to your advantage so for example just because Google and Amazon make things are taught one doesn’t mean people can accept and conference rooms okay so that’s the first things product acceptance you can’t rapper these products and enhanced to make it more commercial as he did about their their on their syntax and court costs so there’s nothing to stop I mean also one company they took one of the others on products returned and she well loudspeakers that you can populate all over the place Amazon elements don’t censor very clever I forgot the name of the company charm they took this product embraced it and need something more out of it that we’re stuck in market I think you can see that it’s not a matter of doing something against more number three senior and thinking outside the box of okay this technology it really is their majority market is residential so it’s not a matter of all the gonna take it away from the regular conference room it’s what I can do to make it into a better crop this from experience which is not what they’re focused on all right that’s a helpful answer I like that a lot especially the example of a echo being built into loud speakers that some and in a way to manage that yeah it’s really matters of greasing the technology and you know this is where creativity comes from okay they did something it’s impeding on our on our stuff what are you gonna do about we have said they’re going to who how dare they or are we gonna answer back and say okay this is what we’re going to embrace it or do something maybe different that counters are and show why he this commercial but there’s always something that you can do further use technologies so jag years ago people were actually having arguments what I want to this summer how one hundred show years ago and there was a debate where it was about what was going on when I cheat or easy as far as integrators girl and when I left the meeting hours late my answer is neither what do people fail to realize is there is a certain level of expertise that is not going to go away anytime soon maybe decades from now they’ll make it self serving and it will figure itself out but for now days look you might have an and I cheap products but at the end of the day what people tell to realize you’re using a network switch for let’s say eve your heart beat in the network such as the group just fix the price of the matrix is all jobs but at the end of the day it’s an even stronger storm it becomes D. element where if you really break it down and ninety persons trains more on the network switch and basic personal connections not always about the actual crucial itself details of what makes it work you’re not gonna get a typical like cheap person too microphone down Sir what would hang up projector and she just she’s stuck into the studs with the ceiling on a concrete things of that nature maybe companies have the expertise to do that most companies don’t have the control system our customer customisation that it takes to bring all these different technologies together that is an art form that that really is what your topic EVH great not to say that young people don’t have their own expert she’s innocent the network switches in how to do their own set of skills I think what’s really going to happen more than anything else arm you can see the agents greater and the other two companies cooperate or even companies haven’t you bring in wasn’t quite she’s knowledgeable staff to support use these are these ongoing technologies that are the only ones the way I see so it doesn’t mean a VS the weaving usually at the end of the day you still got a camera so that physical presence you can cloud right there is a certain often got put a floor box in a box on the table doesn’t go away and that in itself is what makes the need to integrate special unique just like in nineteen degrees they gotta make some special unique which has to do with their knowledge and their installed on the server worms and things that you should ask for the expertise so do you see and recommend a lot of collaboration so when one starts number one entrance let’s come once in awhile collaboration in working more together and still doing what they did just because a girl it’s going towards the R. I G. world doesn’t mean you’re only in the art she still got just a coke world that has to be installed and customers absolutely it’s it’s certainly not an either or decision and %HESITATION yeah collaboration and partnerships is %HESITATION really what technology is all about especially things like software you talk about integration all the time and we’re really just changing the transport mechanism like you were saying the analog part what what hits your eyes and ears war of the camera that that translate some of the real world in the video that that’s never in the IT domain you mentions a few eighty distribution technologies and just to shift gears a little bit you used to see how many inputs you had how many albums you had and then you pick the matrix which that fit it but now we’ve got more choice so you got HEVC maybe over one gig and something like STB only if you’re over ten gig can you give me some practical tips some rules of psalms maybe on on how to quickly decide which technology fits a particular project is pretty simple and someone was overlooked thing application terms it’s that simple it’s not the technology itself that’s part of it is the application so for example if you’re doing a digital signage project just hang in screens to a movie theater or walk the amount of time for people looking at the image is a good looking quality image that doesn’t further degrade the current one solution nice low cost wrong when life is good price point that level and you get into while I need very low latency perfect quality on to implore cast on to work for him I need real time in June medical virtual reality that’s what the change comes well I know that some products out there they’re clean one Jake is as good as the chain gang that’s nonsense art looks great and all this is what we’re gonna be talking about Christian injects they’ve been taken steps are also claiming that they can do their stuff is good as a ten gig and it’s so it’s a lot of smoke screens words I want to create is very good for one check very overpriced for what about almost two and a half tons but as far as taking on a ten gig I was very expensive to do the network switches neck you’re just came out with a ninety six port cartoons system which is extremely expensive you cannot get it courts should someone from the seven hundred Bucks you get it sixteen port now for about twelve ninety nine so they’re not exactly expensive on the way it’s being cleaned out there now is actually no more complicated to work with Dan one kick seems like it’s strong rules of the game and life is good differences discussion visually losses compression near to one point three one compression rate with only a hundred microseconds of latency the one gig just get up to close to two friends once it recently and he acts things generating a lot of heat and power almost thirty five wants and it’s so it’s going to twenty one compression will make it look good because static images builds up a buffer for in the trenches information so static it’ll decent once the motion going it’s not lock and you can’t you can’t change mathematics when you compress twenty one something’s gotta go and if something goes where’s it going and what was it that wench that’s really what it comes down to detail exactly so what we’re talking was look at the price the performance the application we sometimes even ten one hundred gold each to sixty four inches sixty five cents in the Google halfway around the world one gig in turn gives way to much better now you get into the age to sixty four to sixty bought yes you pay the price with clarity and we see but it solves the problem two point cost what’s it she based the hands down stores the dust cost can say that again for point to point it’s going to be are hands down best best price for performance and when you need to do some switching switching you get into the if you’re over once it was just all to try and get a bill right she becomes the better or more cost effective a more powerful solution really even like and something small and I buy all you can be interesting muscle tone of my one gig solutions or you know Chris we priced it where my what puts description prices in the cheapest box you just a little bit more than HUD Steve seniors don’t fall for cash sh now we did have a little bit of a stump and say that we just recently came out with our new HD services HD boost you parks which shot we supercharged give more life edit Dante to it all IP control we added the ability to store case cinema at the for changing Ben left on and at the same price that we’re currently doing or each day straight Sentinel when she took the works there as far as price for performance and what you’re doing so is more choice immortal ID I don’t think age industry is counted out yet I think it’s going to be around for awhile and if you can see hybrid solutions to mix like she was teaching this year actually you got a problem CG misty eyed pea which will then be computing formatted insisted yearly and then the children about what are very interesting and it goes back to you are a few argument of IT integrators will always be relevant and even more so because we have more choice now and and you need to know your stuff to to make that decision with the best technology is that everybody’s can be easily integrated solution to want to join the key is they just need to get back control of the environment I think I’d see people are gonna be relevant in their own way to get me to handle you know that they are the network experts they understand in and out and they usually are in charge of the overall infrastructure of the network personally I like to keep it where he angels like she’s on its own network switch SelecTV integrators can support properly and then we get into the rest of the system that’s my preference I think it gets people to wash trouble I like it and I think you’re pretty much every TV person would like that as well because it just takes away that element of yeah what don’t I know about what’s going on here and %HESITATION when you have your own network obviously that’s that’s one less thing you’re not worried about email or somebody downloading a big file those are things that I’m really could throw a monkey wrench into a deployment but at the same time you know that the benefit of a network is that there’s there’s one of them doubling that infrastructure you mention a few things you’re working on are you working on anything else you’d like to talk about anything interesting well beginning which will allow to showing it Infocom is our new control and Jane are cold reacts RP eight X. stands for action reaction and it’s a non proprietary control based on the launcher Java scripts and will be shown at our booth and one of the things you’ve worked at the beginning was why do these things Dale white where everybody comes up with a new control and should not be known you don’t really see it going and the big problem is most of these companies such much blasted into the proprietary technologies a wake up but there are a lot of time and money into them is what they’re comfortable with from doing it for almost so that’s the problem and one of the mistakes that everybody makes out there when they come out in control and you think that just because it’s better and we took a different approach to make a difference in your answers and this is our house so I was that’s not how it works and that’s why there shouldn’t social units we all do is always business out there somebody will give it a shot but it’s nothing truly penetrating strings can be just another attempt that is failed over the years which I’ve seen so many companies come and go with their attention I mean I can go down the list and so on yeah but what’s different about reacts and this is the biggest difference it’s not just about a war would allow all or just about all manufacturers who are qualified to use we axe so it’s not just about a war is we axe think of us as the global that created the end we’re gonna need to Google that created the rear axle in the war in this case reacts and then we’re going to allow manufacturers to use our technology that we come up with so that we will not just shelling protocols we showed actual crew and there’s a commonality that never existed no one’s ever attempted on which sounds fascinating signing it I’d love to learn more about it because there are a lot of %HESITATION and so the trend now is for a manufacturer to do everything right instigator controls on this guy in your switcher from this guy but now they’re almost forced into being made making a control system and I would guess that not every manufacture even wants to but they kind of have to because people ask about it so over reaching standards based on Java script is the most popular language on the planet you could find a developer the easier freelancer dot com and %HESITATION so would open up a whole bunch of resources and just just the device driver problem alone is is a great argument for settling on on one kind of the platform so this sounds pretty interesting up we find more found out more about it I’ll come to my due date see two one four six info come we actually invite our competitors sure is were not competitors end users dealers will be shown off at our booth on it so will give more detail about what it is and how it’s gonna work and will continue to arm you know said she tried that message to everybody about you know you’ll see a lot of market share on this thing when you get to sell it it’s something not so one of the reasons why we did it was to give people more chores are we did not like what are some of the particular arm then there was doing and they do try to use the fact that they have that type of influence with with the control to make people buy the other products when they want it or not and this gives people more choice it’s does justice to the dealer because now they’re not down by one specific manufacturer telling what they have to do they’re giving shorts somehow maybe like my control and you want to use it with some brand X. Y. Z. touch you’ll be able to do that can’t do that right now it’s going to be this plan this plan this spring and that’s it and it’s gonna be their stuff we’re nothing and that’s not a good way to do tricks that takes away the originality it takes away creativeness when you go to the program’s insults I mean if you think about it what happens if one of these companies go under or if one of these other companies are deciding to sell themselves and they get kind of isolate themselves from the industry because of what they’re meeting should spend all this time learning something proprietary that’s used by many thousands if you’re lucky not knowing and Java script you when you learn it you can do anything you want you can use what you can do website development you can work your actually come up and talk to your company your website you can do other things you can branch out mostly get more access to cold and and researching since and you get more choices in the software development tools and capabilities are growing because now you’re tapping into what’s out there on the wet and not just limited she what’s in the proprietary little world just company tells you when that happens working lose their jobs what do you do now if they’re only Crestron programmer for where to go next if there’s no jobs available which amount of jobs that are available so it’s kind of a scary situation when you’ve been trying to only dash what do you do next and what if one day they go out of business well what if they sell to a larger company that sponsored it only focused towards enterprise solutions on now what do you do a livelihood into their hands one of the smaller guy she would officially given away nothing they can do that originally example reality and things that have happened in the industry could happen that would go from there I was a programmer you scared now words a perfect example I mean back in the day we work question for they sent a cease and desist letter saying stop programming one day because they felt that we were too much competition we’re not sure well actually really work we were just making products that complement to their stuff but I guess they had their own way of looking at things all but one day we were writing code for the next minute we weren’t I can open to everyone and anyone at any time it’s in there it’s it’s in their own always kidding I’m sure you can not they have the ability to control who does what and when and that’s to me is a little bit too much power to me allows people to choose who and who cannot do things and I don’t think that’s good for the industry so I’m trying to lighten up a little bit and give people more choice absolutely if you sit down with your retirement planner and he describes diversification to you it’s sure make sense no problem but %HESITATION in AV we tend to overlook that and %HESITATION we talk a lot about source code but nobody gets the source code for not for proprietary solutions and if something ever happens to that company then that’s it games over you either you can no longer expands or enhance that that system anymore and the skills you have or they suddenly become the phone so I’m on board with you and Java script the trends in web development is to use Java script on the front end and the back end so you can do your user interface in Java script and you can do your control stuff in the same language which is just not alone is a really powerful thing so well bang for the there was way beyond and so would like to say that maybe he’s on the company’s learned from that like I said look every every every single in the company side what they want to do with it and where they go the way he reacts is going to be a winner if it doesn’t take off what we developed a great control engine there war will sell and life goes on and we are controlling tion that we do if it does take off then hopefully can free up and fix the industry and give more choice out there and take it to another level that we have not seen in this industry and really break down a lot of barriers out there are hopefully he has people see that maybe they’ll change the other companies will change their ways as well and it will improve sticks so you know for us we try to get along with almond fractures even our competitors we we don’t as far as we’re concerned is a lot of work out there for everybody it doesn’t have to be a constant battle can be done in a way where everybody wins I do miss the days of when there was a certain level of expertise speech which company and the ones that were held them to have that so we’ve created this monster and now we have to see it through so like I said my job at least our philosophy is we’re gonna take a stab at trying to see if we can really kick start this industry different direction and if we succeed hopefully when the people look back and say well what was a company that did the deed which did and they deliver it and if we don’t I guess unless we can still saying we gave it a shot and see anybody else turned excellent very very exciting stuff will have to follow up and in a few months or a year or so in a sense and see how this all works out if if anybody would like to get in touch with you how would they go about doing that are it’s one nine hundred %HESITATION non she’s about although it’s it’s it it could be ready and enticing for another reading you string but don’t know best way to do it is if you want to get in touch and you just go to sales are wore a and M. dot com well I I I do get some of those emails so don’t go for it you know what if you need to stay on the questions arm you know so that’s a good way to get in touch with me always call my office are nearing that your manufacturing looking to get involved in us she holds me dish called one office don’t tell me who they are and all of you should talk to rich I talk to so it’s not a problem and are if you’re an end user or are you know dealer consulted whatever we love to talk to all you as well Infocom like I said dude she twenty one forty six will be our showing the full details about what it is and how it’s going to impact people and we’ll make our case and people will help us evolve that and hopefully we can make it into something that the industry will be problems excellent thank you so much for being on the show thank you hate Patrick thanks for listening to the show if you enjoyed this discussion if you liked what you’ve heard if you want to hear more discussions like this please go to I tunes legal review to the show send me a comment touches me somehow and let me know that you’re out there listening and that’ll motivate me to keep doing the shows get more so if you’re driving or whatever said something in your calendar to give you a reminder to go to I tunes thanks for listening to software defined survival for transcripts and show notes go to software the financial model