Jeremy West began his career in broadcast and theatre, working for Sky Australia and several theater companies as well as his own video production and software company. He’s worked as an AV engineer for AMX Australia and is currently revamping the way AV is done at Deakin University in Melbourne, Australia.
Transcript...
this is a software defined survival where we talk to AV IT professionals and software developers to find out how to leverage software to reinvent ourselves and we do business we listen to their stories and ask for advice and tactics on how to survive and thrive in a software defined what today software defined survive as a possible ice resistance forty adults accepted standard the possibility start to really open up to is it may go as traditionally washed to think by now so you start to get into it with these things network specialist just like there is so much more relays networks and the more %HESITATION way sitting in a lot of discussions traditionally I’ve a was just just because it would sort of come in and ask for a poor man beg for mercy when something went wrong good morning good evening good afternoon wherever you are in the world to welcome two software defined survival my name is Patrick Murray and today’s guest began his career in broadcast in theater working for sky Australia and several theater companies as well as his own video production and software company he’s worked as an engineer for amex Australia and is currently revamping the way AV is done at Deakin university in Melfort please welcome to the show Jeremy West Germany welcome thank you for having me glad to have you on %HESITATION is there anything about that introduction that you’d like to correct or expand upon now you certainly done your research there saw red spot on absolutely nice the big secret to that one is blinked and as it always is it’s it’s about a ten minute peruse through your linkedin profile and %HESITATION and then it’s it actually gives a great overview of a you know your your pass so getting back to that you know what has been your path how did you really get started in AV I’m always started to as you said in in broadcasting live into time inside predominantly %HESITATION working in in the lauding filled with a lighting technician I’m logging off right now %HESITATION back in those days we were using some of the strand three hundred five hundred series console and and obviously Dan explode once they were just so I think and %HESITATION just curiosity sort of started creeping in on how you could sort of you know hijack the console and start to run out of things in there which I experimented with %HESITATION and from there that kind of just are we into I guess the controls feel %HESITATION which led me into more of the commercialized they saw the installation programming and and those kind of things %HESITATION weigh on my way into a few programming courses and and before I knew it all programming I mix systems in the water in the commercial aviation outside it was there was a relatively smooth transition for me but some certainly really strong footings in that broadcasting live in a time and space excellent thanks for that you mention curiosity and I think that is something a lot of AV people tend to have in common is just this curiosity of of how things work what can I do with these different puzzle pieces how can I put them together and and create something new that’s kind of a recurring theme that I see so what has %HESITATION what was your most successful project and and what made it special for you well %HESITATION on so many different projects %HESITATION probably the ones that some you know I I really enjoy the ones that you can’t really talk about unfortunately %HESITATION you know working for some some larger banks and and defense and those kind of things any of the ones where I really sort of challenge the norm you know I every guy you can hang a screen and send a signal to it and underlies gonna things %HESITATION but when you start talking about doing I’ve installations in in global operations centers and and defense operations centers and things like that that’s when it really starts to get interesting and you know defense running motor when it works on a computer and separate media outlets and all that kind of stuff and and the challenges that come with that %HESITATION and and log was in in big banking sorry probably somebody that you know in in my I. ray integration avoid some of the most exciting outside arm over the most memorable as is getting describing to operations and and you know a lot about writing data monitoring and I based system that was crucial to distributing the video hire young but I can also drink things of that was that was pretty cool but some guy age one has its own unique challenges and it’s memorable for different reasons sigh that that’s certainly stands out as being critical AV support for open heart surgery that sounds nail biting to save you’re not wrong it’s it’s something very different and %HESITATION yeah I they they say the things that %HESITATION yeah I I IV really everywhere in so many different spices that it would nine realize you know you you think of the standard border a mall or not university lecture theatre and things like that on one of the givens we live a but then there is this song much more to it in in terms of an operating theaters and parliament sun and banks and always gonna things that icon of the the best ever arrival looks in until you actually get in there and and get to take a look at you I realize the magnitude of it yeah that’s that’s come up a few times to is is really on seeing how our systems are used if you if you’re an integrator or you work from manufacture something like that you tend to just view these as projects and you get the project done and move on but I think it it it gives you a whole nother perspective when you get to see the systems in use and the yeah it’s it’s a great opportunity so if you get a chance to do that definitely take advantage of it so tell us about what you’re working on at Deakin university I’m so at the moment Tom might my role is in the IV engineering times on the the senior engineer and and technical late so centrally Morrow is a bit of how technology discovery %HESITATION plus taking %HESITATION I guess you know what the universities direction is coupled with what the academics want to be able to do in teaching spices and and outputting I usable sustainable unworkable I’ve a design site in a lot of time to spend investigating and and and are you writing and trialling different technologies %HESITATION along so delivering actual solutions that end up in in production for al learning environments so what kind of a requests are you getting what what are the academics asking for the biggest thing at the moment that that way I’ve got some is is active learning sorry I’m I guess it’s a change from our that you would see it lecture theatre approach %HESITATION all your flat full blood flow students sitting in in Ron’s arm to more of a collaborative converged learning style site academics referred to it as as buying that active learning Stalin and I the spice I tend to say it is more but I converged and and collaborative site sorry on whether that means to sponsor coming into the classroom the physical classroom by on one main sub media conference so all the mines %HESITATION or whether it’s it’s students sitting around a collaborative title with a traditionally been seven in rising election seems to be the biggest thing at the moment and and the biggest change in and out as on it is moving to that active learning aspect interesting I I haven’t honestly heard that term before active learning so I get the part where you said everybody used to be in the classroom and now you have this video conferencing capability that of course expends all the possibilities of of bringing guest lectures and or remote students even and things like that are there any other interesting aspects of active learning or is it basically just video conferencing and an education varmint I’m I guess I guess what they’re doing is is traditionally of Santa a learning spice has a has a screen or perhaps a jewel scoring up the front and an election to arrest content to the students what we’re saying now in in the active learning spices we have %HESITATION yet potentially up to ten screens in in a learning spiced with got ten students per table and that content actually become static during the clock sorry rather than stepping through hell points and and those kind of things I will put up a task in the students will set to work in in those titles of those groups are almost time so it’s it’s you know you know sense of the word a lot more of an active learning approach rather than a a lecture delivering content students walkways we still deliver traditional learning in like she stated we still have traditionally status but there is certainly the approach to this mall active model and a request for the spices that are able to deliver that kind of flexibility when it when I see fit and walk was allowing students to interact back the other one side has a situationally that the contents bang on the strings front %HESITATION when now saying lectures want the students to deliver content back to the cross side I might be at their at their tables with their on screen and the ability to all the wirelessly connect or physically connect via cable back into the I. based system and present that to all of the screens in in that particular spice and student essentially becomes con tent delivery point as well site where it was sort of breaking the bounds of where the content traditionally come from %HESITATION and and moving some of that sort student very interesting it sounds a yeah it sounds like collaboration even collaboration that you would find in an enterprise or company where you have a meeting and everybody basically is allowed or encouraged to to share whatever it is they’re working on so in a university environment what what kind of challenges has that up presented %HESITATION largely around technology sorry you know obviously traditionally where where views dot matrix switching %HESITATION wiping restricted to high state by state technology or weapon restricted to your physical cable constructs site you know hi Jim on has a cool links that you can guys say before the signals unusable or you get the digital clicks in on AGI is is is sunset on im bank’s iced out now %HESITATION so we we have to look at different ways that we can distribute that content and spice arm and different ways that we can control that a lot more flexibly where we don’t have to put a control system into eight screen or a you know a traditional ivy specific control key pad or something like that eight eight string and and change that so people can start to use a small fine or not had to control their own content without having to go to the extent out of a customized based system at every point and programming it lost a roommate a system sorry may probably the two my aspects that that would have to look at very closely been that the control the distribution of content and the how did you what did your research her come up with how are you handling those issues so we did down waited at an expense extensive amount of research into the technologies available to die %HESITATION and and get a range of trials on different technologies %HESITATION prior to heading into a pilot spice essentially in production that’s available for you know university use %HESITATION sorry that the K. component for us was very much %HESITATION looking at software to find solutions sorry so that’s a little bit harder in the content delivery spines I’m certainly in the control spice when else saying a lot more availability of of software solutions to replace the traditional uncle yeah I’m black box solutions site moving towards that that suffer aspects are out now evaluations and and testing and and all of our system we went through landed is essentially on on our audio distribution video distribution the software the phone lines control solution which we now have running in in part spices for users to come in physically you so what was the motivation to actively seek something software defined and instead of going the traditional route I think we touched on it a little bit saying that you need to have all of this collaboration and distribution happening with maybe even bring your own device I guess we could call it but %HESITATION is is there anything else that that really made the push toward software defined I think the IV industry in itself is an interesting I guess lost cycle you could cite %HESITATION where wave traditionally bang you know it’s a it’s a closed industry it’s it’s specific hardware and specific equipment to deliver specific solutions and when now starting to say a change in the industry where where adopting more brought on an accepted standard sire you know something like I I a sixty seven in the audio spices is now starting to look like what I tell you for good dealt with for the last twenty five prostitutes in terms of a standard protocol and a standard delivery method that these forms were largely unexpectedly exactly the same every time you use it what sorry what is a a sixty seven in a Trice that’s essentially ID on a multi hostility I delivery protocol %HESITATION that Spain developed and great upon as as a standard sorry I guess you’re gonna say it’s it’s the next generation on from your car burned down tight and a nice sort of audio delivery particle size I understand that over standard network absolutely yes I’ve so it’s in a standard one one gig solutions for the network is as multi cast and I think this is what we’re starting to say as an industry responded to say this move to date there’s more flexible software based solutions accepted standards %HESITATION previously waves with Gordon you know black box controllers bad I am extra strong extra on him about and we have to bring them into an enterprise network environment and we get funny looks from I take all is going I don’t really know what that is run some form of a Linux kernel kind of conforms to certain standards and it goes on the network but when I’m really comfortable with it and we saw that that whole trend through the IBM mystery in the loss of a ten years where in the right is a brain putting in stand alone access points and stand on route is fighting a systems and and not integrating into an enterprise network because no one really knew what to do with it it was this black box that did something and it was all sort of magic and that’s fine custom programming tired and they speak why are is in security threats and all this kind of stuff and then obviously went through the security breach age with the the I am accent annoys kind of thing that happened a couple years back and I think as a whole the industry is now shifting to this you know there’s a possible ice resistance we adopt yeah accepted the known standards on the possibility start to really open up to is in things like enterprise networking and and systems on virtual appliances in a lace on site that was a huge part of about thinking of going I can I will you know maybe now is the time to make a wife from the traditional technologies we run a five year prefer soccer last isis ought to six years sorry every five to six years spices the revisited and the technology is very bad so we sort of said whoa if if we’re going to do that you know traditionally would have gone in and looked out of the room and waves instilled mold stark I’ve a quick item waves might be right in some calls and I stayed by stray cats XII if we at this stage of the life cycle cable that remotely structured cabling with with network points back to Al Gore distribution in five years time way can simply change I have a quick my by plugging back into the structure cable site is very much changes the dynamic of a room ray first talk about it and I was a lot more flexibility in the next five years ago it’ll dramatically reduce those costs all that refresh cycles well because we’re not having to run custom title one by mall despite the Quitman that not it serves as a host specify more sort one after hearing about my now moving into a spice work on the actual appliances if we need to upgrade the operating system to twenty to expand we all cried the the virtual memory on on the appliance for a more network points when stone of networks which sorry it’s really sort of starting to change that that dynamic of how we deliver and I based system locating them flexible in you know in regards to our users requests absolutely I can totally understand how the pressure from my TV was a big motivator guilty as charged I’ve put an access point and dedicated to the AV system and you wince when you’re doing it because you just know it’s wrong you know that you’re not you know that’s what networks that’s not what networks are for it’s supposed to be one network and that’s how you take advantage of everything and then the software you could you could do just as time goes on to fit your needs so I found that really interesting that IT was a main motivating factor and just the infrastructure obviously I had we should render stoop on the show a week or two ago and he talked about thirty year old cat three cable that was still doing its job because it’s standard based and non there’s no thirty year old Evey cable that could work with today’s technology it’s just impossible so yeah I’m I’m on the same page I really do think we need to start using these technologies the network as it was intended to be used but there’s still some reduced resistance did you experience any resistance in your organization when this new solution was proposed I think we’re in Oregon where in a really interesting positions are your %HESITATION essentially what what happened at the university is that why the engineer I have a engineering fame and a network engineering time %HESITATION well why not one same we work very closely so well and network engineering sit by sickly than an extra one for months on end from the very first moment that way started talking about moving in this direction and starting to leverage the network for video distribution audio distribution arm those costs are a hundred percent on board %HESITATION with had a I’m one dedicated network resource working with us throughout the day evaluation in the pilot stage certainly that that entire time in Spain behind as a hundred center in in delivering this distortion walk was wait wait now start to bring in %HESITATION walk out systems time into our IBM bar side traditionally you know it’s been a very segregated IV would rarely talked to the systems maybe we got a virtual appliance run up to the Armos or a fusion solution and that was it not was largely left untouched and and running but now way starting to write down the wall into archives you know where any solutions for the to limit tackling you solutions to the university waiting on a to stop working as a as a collective a solutions sorry I’m certainly the network because a hundred percent on board I’m what what started to work very closely with the system starts to make sure that we can deliver %HESITATION that the virtual appliances and it doesn’t just stop there were now talking about things like al asfar willing %HESITATION and analyze Kano’s virtual management things are largely relied around security that are customized swim a lot it’s paying a big crash course into enterprise security network security systems security following these are all things that start to become discussions not what’s the IRS to three two protocol for a project of ex wives and it’s on a on a to bring this device three and that’s opened up an interesting discussion chorus and and very much change the direction of where we’re heading in terms of the bosses that we bring into our lives a spice and starting to look at the bosses that largely talk on your poor ideal for constrained preferably for four four three to security %HESITATION dot no more of this to spark you know I manufacture acts could quote seventeen forty five because that’s what they use sorrow over TCP absolutely exactly and and we want to use dedicated accepted standards for RK communication and and it where we can use ID and the software control solution that that way using really starts to give light up because the the icy eyes are rich in in that software art opens up websocket Arkansas up you know all of those kind of what’s accepted in in the outside world from the I. B. industry is as a as a norm in terms of IP all eyes and and just on an XML nice kind of things wave now brought them Intel I based on some we picked out video distribution solution buying the outline on the strand largely because it does web sockets and it can be configured with with XML and we can we can send that strike to it from now control classroom you know servants and configure a boxing in two seconds and have it on one when I pay your own way traditionally have had to go and they all us we you know poor son our situation or whatever my body and it’s just been so complicated and and you’ve got a always complex looks like you know what that device is on for IT I can talk to it start of web sucks no drama right so you mention the solution that you chose and %HESITATION I we can get more into that and in a few seconds I want to take a step back though because you talked a lot about working more closely with I TT and I am really interested in hearing more of what that looks like because like you said AV was its own thing there was maybe a little %HESITATION you talk about a few little things with I. T. but not a lot and then AB was just left to run on its own so what is that collaboration look like and what kind of skills does ATV need to learn right because you can’t just start talking to somebody if you’re talking a different language you have to have some knowledge but at the same time we can’t know everything and I think that would be a fool’s errand to try to say we’re going to be in charge of IT security or anything like that that’s just impossible so where where we should we be getting started with what to learn and and what is that that situation look like for you that’s a fantastic question initially I can decide the the collaboration is paying has been awesome from a skill set perspective about scaling up I came into it with with a little bit of multi costs knowledge so I’ve done some some hotel multi costs tape a deployments and things like that so I had a a little bit of understanding of of how it worked I thought I had more understanding of what I did until I started talking to these guns %HESITATION and it’s not until you start to get into conversations with based god my out how houses of information regarding networks so I guess our initial discussions you know what I type down some notes and quickly head back to Google on and Google is terms and came spots mode and pay to pay an estate pay and all this kind of stuff on there talking always acronyms and then you you start to pick up on that and understand what they’re talking about but really the the shifty means traditionally way would have meetings to decline IV solution and we might have about why they support people involved we don’t assume the I. Beijing is involved I have a project manager I’m days meetings now with Justin bought network resources sorry basically any time we’re going to deploy a solution like this that there’s a network are there with his arm and we learn from them as we got a late start to learn more about access control lists and multi house routing and have networks actually configured and that’s really one of the biggest things is is inherently understanding how the network works and I think probably the biggest missed nine American side coming from an IV industry into the spices that I may go as traditionally walk to think I know how networks work it’s not until you start to get into it with the state’s network specialist at your site there is so much more to these networks and then what makes the art so I can’t give enough price to to the work the guys because of a downed with oz on on this project specifically because really that they’re the Lynch can we can we can verify Tama signals around with my body I signals around the automated among the network as a as a whole nother unique challenge sire personally for me that the information that I learned from that on the journey of satisfying phenomenal obeying all will now sit in those meetings and constantly have that discussion are scholars about you know this is why we think the multi cost is not rounding the slide because the problem is likely going to be here and actually working off that level but having that skill set to call on to actually resolve the problem when we made cy I would say moving forward for IT dollars on to draw the line yourself with with some strong networking gonna start dying trying to take it on yourself and don’t try and think that you might understand it and get yourself into a spice that you can’t get out of certainly start doing some upscaling sorry some of the Cisco training courses online are fantastic there’s there’s things like the cantera network coast if you don’t want to jump into a full service and I or something like that but certainly understanding the basic principles of of multi casting my at two in my story and understanding %HESITATION denied that the tapes they pay I pay models and and how old I was gonna things come together and understanding some of the basic particles that can be used now in these I’ve a spices but yet you know precision time and and the estate pay and things like that arm I just gonna be absolutely crucial and it’s it’s really not hard when when you’ve got someone to sit down and explain it with you in a bit of googling on your own time and and you know you you’ll be on the Saturday night on excellent thanks for that so it sounds like you’re always going to have to have a specialist in the meeting on board and that you need to have an open mind and be willing to learn as much as you can just to keep the conversation going do you find that the that’s reciprocal that the I. T. department is also somewhat interested in learning what it is you’re trying to do so that they could help you more absolutely %HESITATION and my now getting into stages where we’re talking about some of the the the network always most specifically talking about their infrastructure up right side they’re starting to look sort of five six years into the future wrought this is what we think of plans gonna bait and and when there was a big getting involved with those meetings together how does this impact drive a solution what what do you think if any of that probable issues going to arise from if we change our infrastructure from this to this offer miss which model miss which model this is the implications of what can say how do you guys feel about that side it is most certainly becoming reciprocal sitting in a lot of discussions are traditionally IV was just just closed it would sort of come in and you know asked for court mandate for mercy when something went wrong and it’s you know it’s really now to why straight that way it where you know where working essentially as a as a one off the IV tame and and starting to deliver solutions on and the one thing particularly froze in higher education is is remembering that way where improving al services for students at the end of the night so you’re right it’s it’s in the university’s best interest that we all work together fortunately that the environment that we have this it’s it’s working exceptionally well and and what got a great resource that’s now going both ways for us excellent I I really think that the culture of software is one of openness because once you get any kind of knowledge about how complicated things really are about it’s amazing that anything works I think there’s %HESITATION just less finger pointing and more %HESITATION working collaboratively to get to a defined solution I think that’s just like a an inherent part of software general absolutely so worm so what solution for control did you %HESITATION you mention that loner for distribution what kind of control solution did you decide upon and yet so where are you saying I an Australian based solution could I see I %HESITATION so I see I is %HESITATION essentially on a web application for all intents purposes that sits on my server it’s it’s deployed with Dr again something that’s now become synonymous with deploying software in virtual environments and things like that it use a standard spiced languages so it’s using things like where the front end user interfaces are high channel Auburn and Java script libraries %HESITATION sorry and that’s that’s one interesting aspect that they took a turn for hours I’m quite by chance I happened to be talking to the press not lay down visual communication at the university and and was talking about the project and what we’re going to embark on and and what it means I have a and I actually became extremely interested and at that time transpired that the the time her develop out public facing website now Mike I live a user interface in I just about thought sire wave actually borehole an inside there again there are you know there are specialists time that deals with our corporate training and colors and logo and all that kind of stuff their specialists in the field with delivering HML websites and most gonna things up so it makes logical sense the vital over our user interfaces rather than and I’m a guy trying to make a user interface for use of that way you know traditionally I may go as of my user interfaces private yachts to getting the user and and and this time put in a huge amount of effort in terms of user experience in actually putting the user and if I stroke full tests on who wi ro uses and and why finding and building upon that sorry for us that’s a huge benefit the other thing that that live is is that we can have multiple user interface is now so we can have a user and if I specifically designed for al technical support time they give them a large amount of control over the the incident granular routing control of the system where the user interface is literally just pick a source or not send it to us disquiet sorry that’s been a huge benefit as having those ninety languages by it I she wants all the jobs your the front end and obviously ruby and and things like that so the back and again it’s something that’s easy to pick up it’s easy to learn this so much racial some on I am and the icy isolation brain went by suicide flexible interacting with with different things essentially provided there’s an IPO like we can now talk to let you know it from the server there’s there’s really no restrictions on that we live in an A. P. I. worlds and stuff I love hearing about solutions like that because there’s so much more we could be taking advantage of and sometimes the push back that I hear is well who’s going to program it there’s not enough talent out there and it’s exactly the opposite its talent is everywhere there’s software developers all over the world and make you discovered you had a user interface designers in your own organizations who know your users better than anybody else and that’s a challenge for AB programmers we really don’t get to know the users all that well and now I think it just makes sense to to take advantage of those resources like that and also like you said it kind of decouples the user interface from the system so if a navy guy wants to make a touch panel or user interface for himself that’s very tacky and go ahead right the system doesn’t care it’s just accepting requests from from something from a web server essentially in the and that’s the thing and you’re absolutely right and we did a an interesting test I guess when we were going through the evaluation period and and said to one of our I’ve engineers who’s very say’s and Iraq’s program right as I module for this very complicated device in ruby and we’ll we’ll test that will will compare the developments on will compare the apple to module indications the other modes on the security of the module most importantly what have you said used to take him about awake potentially longer in in sort of a traditional I very I am ex spice looking to dice throughout the module in ruby he admitted that he had not really written ready before this site it was a bit of good going in in terms of the constructs of the language was I able to deliver I fully secure module that bonded I’m a full full story with with passwords and in our mind tightening cricket connection to the boss within two dice and and full control back to the user in a site that was a really big turning point for us to say you know what this is this is actually a real big game changer if we can start to do things like this and I’m going beyond that we literally we we save those modules to version control so they could hobble out big bucket anything like that Boris Vian we link that into the icy I engine on the server and a models of their side essentially once he’s finished developing that module commits the the final to the Moscow branch and hearing to software standards in terms of Asian control by Mozilla Keizai now how I see I engine and we can deploy that straight away sorry if we have to make a change on the fly we can work on now development branch that module in our in our development environment tested against the device commit back to envision control and and stride away with contacted Ross we don’t have to bring the system down would I have to work around schedules and out on tables and all of those kind of things we literally just just punch that back in the version control and and and get going and the same applies to the user in Starfleet if we want to make a change to a user interface we can do that on the floor and we can make a color change or a change can dynamically add more sources and we can commit that back to the version control I see I engine excite upside no longer is updating I user enough ice skating H. individual system and you can imagine and an education environment what got around four hundred connected spices innovations we would have to touch each one of those spices individually to do a user interface change right now we dare you one commit back to a Moscow branch and all of a sudden all of the user interface charge sigh huge dynamic shift in the way that we work %HESITATION and it just makes managing that kind of environment son much different %HESITATION one point that was a real high interest to is in the icy I engine was what they’ve stepped down as a three tiered approach to control so you give out your boss module in control module and we can effect settings about module level in the I. saying Jim we can Zorn L. rooms and effect settings there or we can affect setting up the room level site as an example if we deployed I I model of our house in a tunnel and we wanted to set a specific parameter on them every time we added a new one to our environment we could add that setting to add a boss level setting and that would get affected to that the voice every time one comes on line I’ll walk because we can make a digital signage for our digital sauna design and and I see I look inside every time that we had digital songs we want them to turn on at seven I am and sent off at nine PM and every time the channel we want them to be on my side it doesn’t matter what spice that goes into wherever that goes on on the university or whatever campus provided that’s in the digital Sonny signed by settings will call sorry that’s a monumental shift for a baby where we would normally have to put a control system on every single digital signage just fly and give it keramat is individually and and make those changes we now do it once and anytime we deployed you digital signage that that setting up or which is just I’m a normal shift when when you think about it in an ivory industry terms absolutely it is a a real eye opener when you when you see it work for yourself when you mentioned a bunch of things but it basically comes down to development and deployment and when you actually witness it yourself and you see how much it works when you’re developing how many libraries are available I’m sure that’s why you were able to develop so fast that module because there were libraries that just do everything for you this so many open source libraries that you can just pull down and start using where as if you wanted to do something special you have to write it all on your own and then version control and deployment I mean software development modern software development is just light years ahead of what we do with the %HESITATION compile upload reboot sequence pretty archaic so do you have any advice for an organization that’s considering alternatives like this and is just really not sure where to start it’s a really difficult question because I think it definitely applies to to the environment I think the biggest thing that I’ve learned through this journey is stocked with your user requirements first where pain very naive and and I have a that way it designs systems and solutions around whether obey Allah preferred hardware vandal armed or after should preference that this is the way we do it and then wait deploy those solutions and we make them work but that they don’t go right United to continually to use up the the biggest thing that all of our line through this this process is is very much to stop at the user and figure out what does the user expect the system today and how does the user want to do it you know what’s gonna stop thinking in Amman said now that that pretty much ever uses got annoyed fine or an android or tablet of some description %HESITATION and and think how the workflows work on on those devices and that’s how users are going to interact with the systems that where traditionally worked at a high level because we understand the technology we know that we can get input source in IV here and then we do all these bits in the middle and it comes out of there but that the user doesn’t say that but I plug in action on highlights the video to be on the string that’s really all I care about at the end of the night and if I have to interact with the user interface but by one little steps as possible and as logical steps as possible as well and and one of the biggest things that we got back was the user experience feedback through this process of taking out traditional IV designed user interface putting that through testing on them out putting what we’ve got to die software defined solution arm that Dave wells of hot but the use of a light so much more to the new one because it’s Thailand around them sorry we are okay well this is what the user wants that I want to take in you know five sources a one source it doesn’t really matter what they want to take in but we need to get that out sorry we got this is what I want to date this is how they want to do it and then we make the middle bit where I don’t think inherently the floor a baby is a boy band really focused on the middle bit and were forgotten about the to end its yeah the user hence the result yeah absolutely and and they’re denied them their Democrats why we do it way when cut you know as much as I like automating things and I’m playing around with technology and stuff we we do it because users want to display video distribute all y’all or whatever it might be a and we really need to take steps back to that thinking and fortunately flexible solutions like you know I see I owe some of the other software defined I based solutions out there I now offering is a lot more flexibility in in that spike’s arm but certainly wait we really need to focus on these user requirements and understand exactly what is the user wants to date and how the user wants to do it before we start defining or designing the I. bassist excellent user plus the results equals the experience I think that’s a great place to wrap things up today Germany if anybody would like to get in touch with you how would they go about doing that %HESITATION hit me up on linkedin outside and that’s probably the easiest why Germany west’s rings gonna status on the end of it as well there on but jump on there and %HESITATION ship me message that’ll be more than welcome excellent thank you so much for being on the show pleasure thanks having me eight Patrick hearing and thanks for listening to the show if you enjoyed this discussion if you liked what you’ve heard if you want to hear more discussions like this kodachi to leave a review subscribe to the show send me a comment get in touch with me somehow and let me know that you’re out there listening and that’ll motivate me doing shows so if you’re driving or whatever asks you reach to set something in your calendar to give you a reminder to thanks thanks for listening to software defined survival for transcripts and show notes software defined survival