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this is software defined survival where we explore how software defined systems are changing the business of IT and today software defined survival most the most business owners are not classically trained in business their technical experts and you’re running a business the network of whom you trust someone I chief information officer most of the people the people that are going to be if it’s the business traditionally is going traditional transaction service why would I should just this here’s the here’s the magic solution for that grow fearless leader that would test different things and throw away really fast this is Patrick Murray just a quick word about our first sponsor before we get started now all the sponsors for this podcast will be products and services that I’ve personally used and believe in and executive coach Dave shame back was recommended to me by a long time colleague who’s been working with coach Dave for many years and after the initial consultation I learned quite a bit about my strengths and weaknesses that I may have been somewhat aware of but never really saw in black and white and never realized or even explored how they affect the decisions I make and ultimately how I run my business we’ve had a few coaching session since then and while I can’t report that I’ve seen an immediate impact on the success of my company nothing happens overnight but my plans and and daily activities are a lot more structured and not alone takes a lot of the stress out of deciding on what to do next and there’s really just a kind of a comfort and confidence in following a plan that was put together with the help of someone who’s been through the process of growing many companies so if you’re interested in bringing your business game to the next level I definitely recommend booking a free consultation session with coach Dave just go to his website at deem Shane back dot com that’s Dave D. A. V. E. Shane back S. C. H. O. E. N. B. E. C. K. dot com one more time D. A. V. E. S. C. H. O. E. N. B. E. C. K. dot com there’s also a lot of great information on running a business on his blog a lot of great free information so go ahead and check that out Dave sheen back dot com hello my name is Patrick Murray welcome to software defined survival today’s guest has a long history in managing and operating retail stores like toys R. us and is one of the founders of babies R. us where he served as senior VP of operations for ten years so what does that have to do with software you may ask for more than a decade he’s helping business owners in AV and beyond reach their goals as an executive coach when I started this podcast I did not realize how much you think the software defined systems affects the business model but the words as a service keep coming up so I’m really excited to learn a lot today from Dave Schoen back Dave welcome to the show thanks it’s great to join you guys out there I say you’re not last name right I have hard hard time saying it would help the German accent well your debts actually the correct way to say it but nobody in the US can say it that way so young I pronounce it Shane back because it’s easier for Americans wow that’s fascinating Shane I never woulda came up with that one yes is there anything about that introduction that you’d like to correct or expand on those perfect thanks for reading it was pretty pretty cool yeah the big secret is %HESITATION just look at your linkedin profile and copy the words to so can you tell us a little bit about your first contact with the AB industry and how you kind of got introduced to me are sure how you started working with a %HESITATION at the control programming Cup companies custom programming company and %HESITATION we’re we’re having great success with with that firm and he introduced me to a systems integrator a local systems integrator in the northeast of the US and they were because of the two of them for awhile and then they introduced me to an audio visual labor installation and commissioning business so it was a little triad of the audio visual love businesses for from that to be really fascinating I thought it was going to be the coach of the AV industry and in a lot of fun %HESITATION working these companies and are you still work with two of those three so I learn more and more about the industry is every week goes on interesting so is there any commonalities are there any things that %HESITATION you could kind of pick out out of the kind of sets us apart in general I mean you work with a programmer systems integrator freelance installer those are really kind of different tasks but in general is there anything you can say about AB life a few of the the common thread between all three of them is just the incredible amount of consolidation and change that is happening in the industry were were you know the little system integrators fuses certainly a huge consolidation and a movement away from selling boxes to selling or suffers a service having a different mentality so that that permeates all three three businesses certainly up this consolidation is very typical of a lot of industries you think back through my biker career early career working in retail you know there’s there’s hundreds of grocery chains will drugstore chains discounters that were you know morphed into just a handful no never took place over twenty years again a considerable way so now you know see the same thing in the every industry so having gone through that what kind of opportunities in hindsight may have been available to any I think it’s a shitty shift of thinking you know night when I think back to earlier consolidations or or major changes in market places it’s really about us seeing over the horizon being a little more strategic in your view point not tied to old ways in your feet firmly certain countries cheese instead of being rock solid on on what you believe to be true because things change and in many industries so to be aware of that too how you’re in developed different sorts of thinkers I think would be would be a great advice for for the only initially street you should continue to hire people that are just like yourself in your industry is changing you were going to get caught flat footed without the kind of thinker that you’re gonna need in the future so I’m on board with that we’ve spoken to times and you know that I’m all game for trying out new things but there’s also a bit of risk involved with that do you have any advice for managing that kind of risk when you’re so that you don’t shoot too far beyond the horizon and and just wind up waiting for the future to come yeah hired coach find a mentor find somebody in your industry that’s willing to hell the the they can help you with the with section so we all lose our perspective about how far the goal line is well what’s acceptable stress levels were all those things we just you can’t hardly do it yourself yeah well all of us need to get rid of every business owner needs to get rid of that and trash that we all are born with limbic brain sort of fear that those in what I’m doing is to go to work because we need to fight for that and in generally entrepreneurs are like that incredibly tenacious and and then a resilient and fearless but we all have our moments where we doubt what we’re doing absolutely great advice that now that you say that %HESITATION even starting a podcast could keep a good way to just call cut collaborate with other people get your ideas out there make sure you’re thinking clearly and get influenced by by your colleagues yeah mastermind groups are good one %HESITATION a good idea to review have laws locally that are in your industry or in in love you know intact so to speak could be a lot of different though versions of tech businesses but a master mind group would really be helpful for for leaders to just get a different perspective think about things differently read outside of of what you’re comfortable with I collect information in a in a different way there’s so many aggregating of websites now that you can bring information to to your your laptop desktop phone that he has different ideas for example I die I use one call for for many many of you probably have heard of it I die keep the board for just entrepreneurship small business marketing ideas so that sends me articles all of the everyday world and with different viewpoints and so would this be a lesson is useless but so it is like wow I never thought about it that way so the advice is that we all we all continue to grow and develop ourselves and listen to different viewpoints and different ideas so a few minutes ago you mentioned %HESITATION how there’s a lot of change going on consolidation I think it’s clear it’s really obvious that the bigger companies are getting bigger hands the little companies are getting less but %HESITATION you also mentions change the business model on moving to a as a service model and that has come up quite a bit on the show software just lends itself to that as a service model because you don’t do it once and you’re done you don’t just build the system and run away there you know things change software needs to get updated and grow so do you have any advice on how to make this shift from maybe a margin based hardware based type of a business model to more as a service I think it’s going to be done for us Patrick because of this shifting so quickly to look at the new upstarts and yeah your your your your national conferences on what the what the manufacturers are going up is there’s a there’s a groundswell of additional service providers and less reliance on the traditional selling boxes in the so I think I think all of us that are about the industry are gonna be forced to to open our eyes to see that this is this is a major shift that we need to not deny it but to embrace it figure out work where are he said that might be what when you see it will be done for us that customers will start asking for it because it yeah AV is always on the radar like something in I. T. service level level agreement is kind of a common thing managed services are kind of a common thing and it’s just really not that common AV yet maybe in larger enterprises so if you wanted to kind of catalyze that a bit and not and do it in your niche evening space how would you go about doing that well yeah you think about who’s going to be making the decisions and that’s prevalent in the IT industry the I. T. chief information officer the loss of the few the people are going to be making decisions about AB in future okay so if they if they have a good have many are used to service level agreements in in their current industry what why would they the man that to be similar in any AV roll out if if if the business traditionally is is your is going for away from the traditional sort of selling boxes and and a transaction to a service well why would why should we just jumped in front of them the anticipated are there any common mistakes that you see a business owners make there’s tons of because the worst ones hello mistakes I think one is the that I think I can do it myself where the cuts that’s a big when we touch on that a little bit other common mistakes business owners make is %HESITATION not spending enough time understanding financials okay you know we run it too much out of the out of the checkbook in cash flow instead of the fundamentals balance sheet understanding can all budgets %HESITATION metrics that’s a huge issue for for most smaller businesses for sure and how do you get better at that well you get you find yourself a mentor that can that can help you with that colored so your accountant or culture or take a class it’s not that hard to understand but most the most business owners are not classically trained in business or their technical experts they are really really good and well leave your products and services that deliver but maybe not necessarily have the experience that they need something need some outside help trusted CPA okay see rule number one right don’t do it yourself told to do so the the other common mistake is that we hire for the most inexpensive person that we can find that much night could possibly get the job done instead of me doing investment spending into higher better tell investment spending yeah so you think about this is buying buddy like buying a machine you’re buying you’re buying your your biggest asset which is in the in the up and coming high performance individuals so we have a tendency to make to to buy on the cheap earlier or even passed earlier I understood I can understand early on better than them two or three years and into a business and I really learned my lesson on that from mobile babies R. us experience that that the folks that were loyal and great in the beginning were not necessarily the people that have the horsepower to handle it is to get better and it took me awhile to really see that my understanding is it’s an emotional decision why don’t these loyal people perform like they used to uses more complex and it’s more difficult there’s bigger decisions and that’s that strategic viewpoint the best the best people you wanna hire folks they concede that strategy meant that after working all the time but they can see where they’re going that they’re great communicators and this this is a really interesting point that how companies can change as a gross I think that’s a real challenge to us to have the same team when you’re a group of less than ten people and then you grow into a couple dozen fundamentally the yeah a different beast every sort of babies R. us there was three of us while you’re working on the original idea and at the end there was there was ten thousand people reported to me so you don’t think they get more complex as thirteen direct reports for or for a vice presidents and a bunch of directors and now the complexity of just managing brown would deliver telling people is completely different from what I did in the early days so roles changed for me and my viewpoint change and that’s what happens with all that I worked with some of those people just couldn’t grow to that capacity right so I’m still waiting for those problems so I’m do you have any stories of %HESITATION anybody in the V. or any other industry of somebody who just made up a good turn around that was kind of stuck with something at a problem that they just couldn’t get through and %HESITATION and really turned around yes we have a one one of my clients in the industry is when I first started work working with this guy he was he was out on his own a book keeper and self and on the net business through grew from that to you know a fairly significant companies use of language we don’t want to see the sales line with the staff is now about seventy people so in some highly profitable business so here’s the here’s the magic solution for that growth fearless leader that would test different things and thrown away really fast they didn’t work invest in and give it time to to percolate and grow look it didn’t work bone gone we’re gonna move on to something else so tirelessly create of yeah in trying different things the new he’s really really very impressive to me just because you don’t see them that often throughout the normal heart so let business six borderlines use daring Russell and and fearless grossly grin were there any armed practical things any exercise or practices that that you noticed in in what he was doing or what that company did that may have a attributed to that yeah I guess it just sounds like courage just having the courage to try things out and and see if they work on their own and Pat myself on the back but I think we’re I help this individual was was having bouts of being able to bounce ideas off of it and and because we all get when you’re running a business is very low in the years to really know your network of whom you trust is somewhat limited self coach by providing that the discussion so I’m gonna be I want to listen to what you say I’m gonna help you shake that idea think about a little different so the end result in the system success that he had was incredible amount of focus because we we kept clarifying what you’re trying to do bring it back to what was the original idea was are we methodical about this so when we come to believe but some direction and well discourse about about strategies that was how I ended up either interesting I’m just taking notes so as he was going through this process it must’ve been a different thing when the company was smaller so trying testing out different things it’s an investment of time probably capital as well and %HESITATION dead needs to come from somewhere was there kind of like a base of business that he had that allowed him to try out these different things or she so so there were a few things that worked out well early on yeah he understood understood his costs were very well and his margin requirements which is also another weakness in most businesses the idea of understanding be gross margins in overhead which I guess ties back to my earlier comment about understand your financials but there there is a definite weakness of most small businesses about understanding gross margin and how to use that had a price and and he had a extremely strong ask you then when it came to that so he knew where every nickel was he knew what his costs were in what he needed to make so there was a underpinning of profitability to allowed to grow it was you who you can grow in margin as time went on it a solid margin excellent that that’s kind of exactly what I was looking for because we can talk about courage and and and %HESITATION creativity and innovation but in the end it does come down to a very practical things and %HESITATION understanding the financials of the company seems to be what gives what could give you that confidence to take those chances because if you don’t know if it’ll work out or then you could plan on it and and you know what things look out I look like on the other side regardless of what happens well you service mentality to is really important for all small businesses to be really focused on on your client satisfaction in the you know I think a lot of us we view it as a we don’t hear any complaints everything’s cool and then that is probably not the right way to do it we need to do more surveying we need to be asking the right questions we need to be close to those decision makers so we understand how to fix things earlier so some of the most businesses certainly strengthen those individuals so a character in India quite you mention customer service what would that look like on a practical level just about the way one of the smartest decisions are made and when the babies R. us days that I tied the compensation of all the store managers to to guest satisfaction so we did service and then rolled up and number was a scorecard they at once we had a bass line and we know what what date where they were at in that store that clientele and then we give them a little left of this is what you need to do you need to get to this level and you get to make money your books so so that can be done in any business maybe not to that extent but it could be you have to measure first so you know there’s SurveyMonkey there’s a lot of different tools that you can use that electronically probes your clients to get you know three or four questions then you get a bass line and how you’re doing types of jobs that don’t work so well we’re get markdowns identifies process breaks and weaknesses you understand very clearly of what customers like you and which ones don’t and and it is a lot easier for a client to to give you a mark down on paper or electronic surveyed than it is to do with your face so when you were listening in and we’re not hearing any sort of problems we get in we get dolled into thinking that literally school but then if you look at what how they really feel in a in a in a return electronic digital Sir right well who we didn’t do so well what’s that all about yeah great stuff so that’s kind of like at the end of every stripe call you get asked that the return yeah is limited to learn a route we all want to collect way too much information and we’ll have the service in on the go on for fourty minutes you really I think most customers most clients want to help businesses they want help shape they want to have influence but just don’t warrant so what is the most important metric customer customer delight just what were you happy those five stars are really all you need to know yeah I think there could be some opportunity there for a TV industry to to build in a little feedback loop just like this guy called right have those five stores whenever somebody shuts down the system or not so if anybody would like to get in touch with you how would they go about doing that you can you can contact me at %HESITATION Dave Shane back dot com so many emails Dave at a machine that can really hurt remember that’s probably the easiest way I have a contact form on my website you’ll ever and ever needing help %HESITATION just click on that and I are for one hour complimentary coaching sessions for anybody that’s interested of a problem that let’s let’s schedule time willow will talk about excellent Dave thanks a lot for the talk today my pleasure Patrick thanks for listening to software defined survival I hope you found it useful and maybe it inspires you to try out something new this week if you have any questions does software defined survival dot com and click the appropriate I’d love to answer questions on the air and if you’d like to help spread the word please subscribe comment and share it with your friends

this is a software defined survival where we talk to AB IT professionals and software developers to find out how to leverage software to reinvent ourselves and we do business we listen to their stories and ask for advice and tactics on how to survive and thrive in a software defined what today software defined survive and then I get there and then it project manager got none and I we want this button to do this and do that easy rider writing way it’s going to be handed out of it you know the next day and it’s like two weeks worth of work we need some money from someone with an understanding the banking code what’s required all understanding how to really it’s not so easy and that really wanted and this space pasted to stand up and take control of this whole prices because it was a safe space it really understand these prices Haiti Patrick here just a quick recap of my week before we get on with the interview I just got back from Amsterdam where I attended Crestron master training event it’s the year two thousand eighteen in case you’re listening to this sometime in the future ends quite honestly I almost did not go but on the recommendation of my body Steve Greenblatt he really encouraged me to go and he was right it was the right thing to do because I was really surprised about some of the things that I’ve heard now in AV one of the things I’ve been talking about for a long time is this whole software defined stuff using modern programming tools to %HESITATION do your automation and control and pretty much all the traditional control manufacturers have been hesitant to take that approach because I understand it right quite frankly they’ve put a lot of resources into creating proprietary control systems proprietary ID ease in software and they have all the support structures and dealers who are trained up in this stuff I completely understand that and on top of that their tools work great they do what they should but from my perspective once I started using iOS swift and Java script with no J. S. ends working with other developers and subcontracting work out to other developers it became very difficult to go back to those tools because it’s just a completely different development environment so I think there’s a place for everything there’s a time and a place for these traditional tools there’s certainly more of a role that modern tools could be playing and that’s why I was really blown away this week when I attended a class at this Crestron events where they announced that their touch panels will be programs with HTML five CSS and Java script and they will not be providing an ID touch panel designers will be expected to use modern web development tools to create their touch panels and this is a complete paradigm shift it’s a total one eighty from that closed proprietary system approach because now basically you create a web page and it could run anywhere I could run on your laptop it could on on any browser any could also run on Crestron touch panels so this completely opens up the weight AV projects can be done on the touch panel side because we have so many more resources now you could hire any web developer to make a whiz bang touch panel ends you could re use that however you like you could serve it up from somewhere browse to it from your phone you could package it up as your own app and you could brand that out and I think this is a really big deal because let’s face it Crestron is a really big company and when they do things like that people will pay attention to it so I’m really excited about the things that I’ve heard this week ends also their touch panels will be running android so it looks like you may even be able to run your own applications right on the touch panel so this is really exciting stuff and along with some of the other things that I saw this week like the the partnership with apps space a digital signage company starts to make sense because the run that digital signage platform it’s basically HTML web pages so it kind of makes sense that they’ll move in this direction and of course all the video I. P. over IP was a big big thing that we talked about this week and quite frankly he V. systems are going to have to be done differently they’re going to have to be designed and plans quite differently even a good CAD drawing you know the days of of writing on the back of a napkin or certainly over but even a good CAD drawing will not be enough to get buy in from IT professionals so the landscape certainly is changing and one of the biggest takeaways that I took away from this week is that Evey programmers and software minded integrators are really the ones who are best positioned to shepherd in this new paradigm of AV IT and software defined AV IT on a technical level sure obviously that’s why we’re best position because we understand things so deeply what needs to be done and the order in the way it needs to be done but on a business side I think we have a lot to improve on and that’s why today’s guest gives us a lot of tips about how to change your business and really take advantage of the opportunities that are waiting for us so let’s get on with the interview my name is Patrick Murray welcome to software defined survival I’m here Chris Johnson master training two thousand eighteen in Amsterdam and I’ve met some interesting people and one of them is my guest here today and being that I’m a masters I have not had a chance to look at is linked in profile and give the typical background so I’ll just let him do that himself Louie rivers welcome to software defined survival how are you today things country can you tell us a little bit about your background how you got it starred in a movie and not all that sure %HESITATION yes I’ve been doing this for about thirty seven years sort of my background was initially doing invent some and %HESITATION as a DJ and production and then sort of went into the I AB side of things in regards to silos and technical and installation and they need to programming and project management and running says as a senior project manager and yeah so it’s kind of pretty much everything in the industry all kind of have a doubling and had to play with excellent and what was that initial impulse to get into a V. what what was like your first project or %HESITATION probably as a DJ but both my brothers with the Jason so it kind of was in the family and %HESITATION and yeah I like a lot I used to set a mark around this kid doing recordings and and that sort of thing so I was really not very much into music to really enjoy it cool thank that pops up a lot there it is again music usually it’s guitar something that we’ve got a DJ on the show and %HESITATION yeah that’s a recurring theme that music is a gateway drug for a fee which is it different so %HESITATION could you tell me a bit about your most successful project and and what made it special for you I guess the %HESITATION the not so much the lightest that probably one of the biggest I did was set on a few years back I did a project for the department of education and it was somewhat different to this standard project in that %HESITATION always working directly with the consultant and always engaged by the client to actually do the programming commissioning which meant that the SI was the one that actually just supplied with equipment and installation and I did all the programming commissioning full that project working directly with the consultant and the and the and the client take Mike showed that the interface is we’re going to deliver exactly what I wanted %HESITATION and the project end up becoming %HESITATION %HESITATION will actually like we had the guys coming out from integrate at magazine to do a just a cover story on and %HESITATION and it wasn’t long before I see in two thousand seventeen and %HESITATION and then we found out that bag she had put herself for the international war practically you without you asking for yeah without a sign asking for it we digest and and when it was only like about two weeks out from the shot and so I you know I wasn’t trying to guide to I see because I was already coming a masters in Amsterdam and it’s a long way from Australia to to come here so it was at a big commitment to it be up to come twice but two weeks out and found out that would be nominated in the consultants at night you betta get tickets even a common we came to Amsterdam and I’m surprisingly we actually won the international project of the year which we went expecting because there was seven of the major projects from around the world and it wasn’t a large project but the innovation in the project and how it all went together and the client was just over the moon with that and it worked really really well and kind of %HESITATION from there it’s sort of staying rounding to me looking into more working with consultants and and the end user to get a pet a outcome and I guess that’s probably out of all the projects that are done browsing the projects are done over the years that was someone and I guess what’s with the United a stand out the most so I’m looking at that projects what really set it apart for you was that direct contacts with the consultant generex yet and definitely early on in the in the prices so you know I I I’m just speaking to people he and everyone has exactly the same issues with you know when they’re working at that sees the %HESITATION and sort of working we %HESITATION system in a crisis this it’s usually time is always the issue you know and I don’t have the time to be able to scope it out probably ended really get %HESITATION might be to talk to the end user client to really understand what the requirements are from from the client’s perspective side they do their best and then I get there and then it project manager got none and I we want this button to do this and do that do that subtle changes in its usually right at the end of the project way it’s got to be handed over the you know the next day and it’s like two weeks worth of work to trying to facilitate the requirements and and you know if Ian seems to be getting set up the file all the way along the trying said to be able to be engaged on very very early crisis you know we were spending we spent a lot of time developing the actual touch panel layouts before any code was actually written so it worked out perfectly and so when it come time to to trying to with no changes required because it was all worked out that’s really a really interesting you know I’m really excited about this whole idea and because it’s the same old song and dance that’s being set up for failure happens over and over again so I’m really excited about this idea of %HESITATION getting involved as early as possible but that’s easier said than done right so do you have any usually I ask for advice at the end of the park as but let’s just jump right into it do you have any practical tips for anyone who wants to get closer to the origin of the project yeah definitely look I I think that some as program is we’re always at the coal face and we can bring a lot to the title when it comes to helping al consultants and even system going into great dissident doing design construct talk works all I believe and this is what I did which took me a long time I spend a lot of time meeting with consultants and meeting with you know a system integrators and just explaining to them what you know how I can deliver for them and and what we can do to to help them when they designing from a design perspective without understanding the packing code what’s required for understanding how to really do a good interface %HESITATION it’s not so easy for an a so I or even that the consultants to be able to %HESITATION paint a picture for the client so when we come on board we know what works what doesn’t work and we can explain that to the client and then we can find at the intricacies of what I require one of the issues there they’re experiencing and how can we in code and in the in the face %HESITATION be able to provide that and why this is gonna be easy for them to use excellent so the benefits sure if you’re in early you have more time right you don’t have that time crunch at the ends obviously contacts to the end user that you could really understands what what issues they’re trying to solve what what kind with their solutions should look like those of the benefits has there been any %HESITATION challenges that have been introduced by getting in so early is there anything that any negatives to it a look they res %HESITATION obviously when you change the way things get done in any industry you can have some sort of resistance and so I found the wrist any resistance at all I’ve experienced is mainly from the system in a crisis %HESITATION by it you know I see me as a threat %HESITATION as you know that I’m taking away part of the works %HESITATION button in actual fact %HESITATION every project that I have run with this model %HESITATION has worked perfectly with the client and then actually might system integrator look bad on %HESITATION because nine times out of ten that the the the product mix delivered is not exactly what the client wanted all the consultant had this online %HESITATION because of all the time limitations in money because I mean that was a tender arrangement with that putting the pricing as cheap as possible just get in and get out and then run on variations to try and actually make some money out of the project by the way doing it is not about you know looking variations it’s about being up to understand what are the deliverables from from the outset so that we can actually deliver that to the client rather than how we got to get in and get out in a certain period of time so how does integrators flips have they changed their mind set after going through the process look some have %HESITATION some haven’t I mean you can’t change everybody but I think in the long time people will see the benefits of this model excellent so let’s get down to some practical details what does the process look like so there’s a consultant who has a project you’re on board to help him what are some some of the steps some of the tasks that you actually do and and the timing of those tests like I so depending on where the projects are sometimes we just organize like assume chorus or Scott call with the client or all the key stakeholders that again we utilize the for the day the %HESITATION the system or to maybe %HESITATION services system or their own internal IT or to all IT departments have everybody involved that would like to have input in the eye roll you know you soul operation of the system %HESITATION side that’s the first thing is to be able to scope it out a lot of the times like for instance of a recently did a university project where they had like six different types of of the legacy touch panel laughs and what we did was we tried to everyone of them and we said I chi what’s the good the bad and the ugly for each one of these and then basically grabbed all the good bits and try to get it all together and and and documented a once I will let’s let’s work from this and and basically built %HESITATION a touch panel out having all the functionality within the one system and then sort of guy from there so it gave us a framework of way to stop from %HESITATION and then where I would be able to do it and build and build until it got him absolutely everything that I wanted to do but still easy for an ID educators to you because you know the light at the end of the day to day the guys that are going to be able to get out there and just be able to you know select one button and the whole system turns on the white guys it’s gonna be very easy for them to be able to do that pot from the the people that are actually the intent of life you know like two guys I know the issues they’re experiencing and I to die Dino the floors in the existing systems and I can provide that feedback from there you sort of given a really good clear roadmap of what you’re going to deliver once you’ve got nice touch panels done in light and light out the coding is easy because it’s normal cry it’s it’s really black and white yeah that’s come up several times to programming is actually easy once everything is defined so just to recap real quickly step one is talk right talk with the end users see see with their their needs are step to analyze if they have anything already really take a good look at it what’s the good what’s the bad and step three is documentation so you’ve mentioned touch panels several times %HESITATION does does your value really revolve around the coup we interface or is that just part of it is it is there more to it than that look I believe the Kiwis probably ID percent of it to be honest %HESITATION seriously because at the end of the day the people that are all private that I’m K. one brandies it’s irrelevant it’s just about the user experience and I that’s bandied around a lot of Instagram at the user experience but it really is about the user experience so if you can get thank you we rely and make it nice and easy %HESITATION you know your job done do you have any way to %HESITATION it was not do we rooms are and so %HESITATION keypads or it real animation where there’s just sink detection or or things like that maybe even voice control yeah look I think can sink detection yes %HESITATION haven’t done a lot of key pad type stuff from because typically the systems are out of work on a usually quite large and complex said there’s not a lot of that sort of requirement and made the point I want to range where Mike in their breakout room or you know since a little meeting rooms about that %HESITATION that %HESITATION haven’t done any yet voice control but definitely interested in in in sort of looking into that area okay so you’ve got the functionality defines in whatever the user interface is going to be let’s say it’s a good week you’ve got that defines with some just wire frames or is it a full blown %HESITATION graphic design do you put some text in there to describe things give me an idea what that was don’t do that we want to climb into the client is not something sometimes you can be just a simple yes actually doing all the touch panels because you gonna do them anyway you’ve already got the job so much of the touch panels and then screenshot to send it to the client and then if you can have a meeting them to be able to explain how it’s the the functions working things out that really depends on the complexity of the of of what the project days you know if it’s just a basic little meeting rooms are not that that’s one thing that’s you know you really kind of to get into it too much if it’s more like a more complex you know meeting room board room or you know a multi purpose to offering where it split into three range of things out that then you getting them more complexity in you need to actually get down to the nitty gritty and you need to have everybody spying on on we have to get that information sure and numb once that’s approved and everybody agrees on everything what are the next steps are probably pretty obvious but just take me through that case a missing anything side typically once that some of the that signed off for me that’s the next step for me to get my next progress payments %HESITATION because for me it’s all well and good to be able to do the work but if you’re not managing risk of business that’s the other part of mapping of the program is it is it it’s it’s a business as well you know you gotta make sure that you you managing cash flow and you managing that that you you get you made a milestone in you you put any invoicing and once anymore spine then you get a next step and you’ve clearly defined that from the outset so the client really knows what are the key points along the way so once you’ve got that signed off and you you know you put invoicing in you being tied for the ice man a works then it’s getting on to the programming I’m saving up the program and you know maybe you can you know do some off site testing you know you might have a little crisis you go home and be able to actually play tricks and all that sort of stuff working and anything else that you can test as much as possible I like to try and have pretty much most of the code components completely finished before I go to start and stop loading the other thing that from there is that would be really dumped on and make sure that the system integrator is completely understanding of what is required before the program is going to get someone you know make sure that a lot of the RP information’s being supplied to the dive down all their system testing and so on exam that might show the days you know anything it for their one night you know Wallace and for for the yeah program to going in and load understanding that you know who seems in control of the commissioning side of things and that sort of thing and basically it it’s just run like a project you know you’re going to have more you different elements of what’s going to be done and and it’s done in in in in time once the programming is done then it’s putting in time to say a couple of programs done now I’m ready to come to sought once they’re ready and then somebody it’s another %HESITATION and then it’s the final go to sign in to you funneled lighting and testing and commissioning and trying excellent %HESITATION I usually have a note pad and take notes but I’ve got a bright rely on my memory for now so there were a couple things I want to touch on %HESITATION you mention payment as being a critical part of the process it’s not all fun and games you know the as technical people we we like to have fun we enjoy our jobs but %HESITATION I like the way you you place that importance on there it’s got to be part of the project processes when we we paid for what tasks so I think that’s a really think important thing to note and of course you did the programming because that’s %HESITATION when you’re background where you come from but there’s also this installation part so it almost sounded like you become there’s a transition between where you’re doing some consultancy on on what the final solution looks like and then you transition almost to a project manager do you help select the %HESITATION as a systems integrator and and then can you talk a bit about the transition from being a consultant to a project manager yeah look down at the moment in the role that have been doing we %HESITATION the consultants there’s no real involvement and he’s getting shot in a chosen to to do the work in regards to the tender process of %HESITATION %HESITATION by in demand definitely with the project management I’m actually managing my part of the project and on making sure that I know in advance when I’m required on site on like show that Dave because you know what they ducks in line of Donald a big that I need to tell you because it’s all about ensuring that I understand what my requirements on before he shot because I don’t want to get the site and I’m not going to work %HESITATION because just wasting everybody’s time yeah so is so once a project is installed and complete and accepted is that the end of the projects because I kind of have this idea of if you look at software development you’ve reached version one and then there’s a long time between that between version one release and when that system reaches end of life and that tends to be ignored a lot in AV do take that into account and all and and what does it look like for you you look alike to run have the chance to be able to go and get back to the client and just see how even it’s going you know just to calling you can just have a coffee just to see how it’s all going but also I I I tried to exceed in case they mean to you know providing some sort of found a service agreement you know from the from the %HESITATION %HESITATION uniting site com you know for more updates and and %HESITATION you know testing is systems and stuff like that I mean it’s all well and good to be installed will have certain you know my idea slicing in place but from a from a code in an operational taught us perspective %HESITATION I’d like to have make sure that my relationship with the client is still strong and in any changes they want to do United gonna come straight to me every time just to just to make sure that %HESITATION you know what it is going to be done in code can be facilitated excellent excellent yeah you mentioned %HESITATION %HESITATION says security updates and we just sat in a class together where you know the big take away for me was if security is a feature if you view security as a future then you should be updating firmware regularly that’s that’s a part of it yeah and so so it is a little bit loose right it’s it’s not really an a contract is not part of a documented part of the work flow but you definitely keep in touch with the end user is so is there anything else that %HESITATION that you’re working on that you’d like to share with us any plans for the future you plan on doing anything with this model or just continue to execute it on your own yeah look I am working at the moment %HESITATION to put together a %HESITATION it basically I’m looking at building strategic alliances with people not just in a stripe around the world there are like minded and wants to set a time you know I’m take more control of where the going in and advice to give themselves the opportunity to actually succeed in business rather than just you know I get the cards dealt with in and and I’ve got to put up with it and tried to do the best I can with with what’s dealt to them %HESITATION and so in saying that odds actually got some alliances throughout history of cuts and make a line in the U. S. that we’ve been talking with and there’s been quite a few people that I’ve met here at %HESITATION at monsters that I getting at are asking the same questions that everybody else is asking their own experience the same issues so you know just saying this model is saying how works and and and a sexy sits a few places in the U. S. that are actually running exactly this model %HESITATION and it’s working really really well and in talking with some some of the head guys here Crestron a dinner last night and he said the time that we’re trying to get people from from CS pasted to to run this model the ease and and yeah and that really wanted and this space pasted to to stand up and take control over this whole crisis because it was a serious piece it really understand this crisis and now hoping that that we’re up to do that now I can understand why it hasn’t and because everybody’s different you know some people %HESITATION management people some people out another ticket to known that big data really just want to get in because I really don’t want to be client facing that really don’t want to be running a business is such two as a business development manager they just wanna write code and I want to do any voice and I want to work on the next job not so bright image finding you can earn good money that way but essentially if you want to be you know in charge here and destiny and you want to be able to work on some pretty amazing stuff and be involved from the outset and rather than sort of you know on my small of being rude being a much like a bottom feda you know you you get to the top of the pack and then so you will be working at that high level you really need to be able to have strategic alliances with those people that can actually help you to get to that point and so you sort of working together and it becomes you know it’s a win win deal for everybody that’s involved when I know I believe in life you gotta love what you do when you get away with doing a lot allies that were actually going to enjoy that and will likely we work in the industry that pretty much every on that I’m not in the industry level I do you know it’s it’s a fun industry line %HESITATION side that’s a first base so you got to be happy with what you’re doing and I believe you got to be in control of your own destiny not like if you sitting there and being upset of the county got a date you getting dealt stymied getting you pack now it’s time to move on and and and take control of yourself and if you can’t do it yourself align yourself with people that are going to help you be able to get a you know help them to get with any ticket and you help them and I help you when you when you know it you’ll go along the path together and it’s amazing what you can actually chase absolutely inspiring stuff you you’ve got me all fired up and I can’t wait to get home and start executing on some of this and %HESITATION based on some of the things we’re seeing here this training software is really going to be more of a part of the way AT projects are done and %HESITATION we’re going to have to develop software development cracks practices we will not be sitting on a cable school behind Iraq doing things last minute so the industry will have to change and a lot of the things you said about you know taking charge of your own destiny I really think it’s time for for AB programmers and software minded people to stand up and say yeah we could do this and %HESITATION and to get to it so if anybody would like to get in touch with you we’re gonna follow up probably some time and a half for your your so and and see where this whole journey takes us but if anybody like to get such a few in the meantime how they go about doing that and you can get to it contact me through I linked in this one way I’m all up and leave at on my dash excel the XC L. dot com today you excellent thank you so much for being on the show early thanks Patrick hate Patrick Ewing and thanks for listening to the show if you enjoyed this discussion if you liked what you’ve heard if you want to hear more discussions like this please go to I tunes legal review to the show send me a comment get in touch with me somehow and let me know that you’re out there listening and that’ll motivate me to keep doing these shows get more so if you’re driving or whatever to set something in your calendar to give you a reminder to go to I tunes thanks for listening to software defined survival for transcripts and show notes go to software defined survival dot com